Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So let's look at Westwood comps, for this particular example.
What about Lynnfield? Burlington? Bedford? Assembly? Littleton? Dedham? Have you seen the plan for Cambridge Gallery? They have taken previously underutilized land and have created exactly what you just showed me in that post.
If you are saying we don't do enough of it, that's fine. But there is an abundance of regional access to strip malls and modern conveniences in the majority of Greater Boston, just not as much as Chicagoland.
In 5-10 years, though, what will all of this become? New areas that combine shopping with entertainment and restaraunts will do OK, but all of that legacy commercial junk pent up in areas around Boston and Chicago will be empty lots. And, I suspect the impact will felt far greater and wider in IL than it will be in MA. And maybe, just maybe, the apprehension to build and zone will actually prove value (if they allow housing on those lots instead).
The thing is all of this stuff is so recent and I’m no longer in Boston (I left 2.5 years ago and none of this has impacted me) But why is all of this just happening now?
Dedham was a place I pointed out in my original gripe. I’m vaguely aware of the other places but not Littleton. I landscaped are a house in Littleton as a teen and found it really rural/suburban with one little main thoroughfare of insignificant businesses.
And basically that’s my point about amenities, not enough of it IMO and so much of it is just coming along super recently.
See, here is my issue. You make it seem like Chicagoland, or any other premier metro, doesn't have this... I think you have the opposite of a familiarity complex.
Here are some looks at fairly typical, inner ring suburban Chicago commercial blocks
But have these places been actively fighting against relatively minor developments for years on end? Or are they just a victim of poor economics. There’s a difference. Obviously there are under utilized retail areas in Chicago land. But in that vacant plaza I showed there have been plans for a Dunkin Donuts but it won’t open without other tenants. The Burger King met with neighborhood residents 5 YEARS AGO and even conceded on 2am drive-rolling back to midnight thru but they’re still rejected by the Boston Zoning Board because residents don’t like midnight and they want a “healthier option” they just don’t realize this gioves the whole area a black eye. All that land lying vacant since ~2010
The Cambridge Galleria project is unlikely to start before 2023, due to very intense backlash. Id be surprised if it doesnt get downsized again.
I heard this also.
Boston just has to be brought kicking in screaming into the present all the time. It can grating/tiring and it keeps everything artificial expensive due to legal fees, time delays, and inflation not factored into original costs.
Didn't even mention the lack of nightlife in Boston. The suburbs have virtually no nightlife except a few of the gateway cities and that's very paltry as well.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 01-16-2020 at 11:51 AM..
Boston just has to be brought kicking in screaming into the present all the time. It can grating/tiring and it keeps everything artificial expensive due to legal fees, time delays, and inflation not factored into original costs.
Didn't even mention the lack of nightlife in Boston. The suburbs have virtually no nightlife except a few of the gateway cities and that's very paltry as well.
Liquor Licenses are 450k, Happy Hour and Drink Specials are Banned, NIMBYs own the city because YIMBYs don't attend the public hearings... so its really all self-inflicted.
If you think Galleria is bad... you should see the backlash for the Edison Power Plant. The proposal was 1,300 units of housing with maybe 200 parking spaces, a food hall and some retail. Not much. Some. BUt NIMBYs backlashed, fought, cried .. the whole works and said it would bring too much traffic in and that this project needed more retail and parking!! Mind you, commercial developments in Boston bring 4x more traffic than residential units, so their argument makes little to no sense. So the new proposal had 750 units of residential housing. NIMBYs still fought like hell.... we now are in this process 3 years later, back to square one... less than 660 units proposed, a food hall and some office spaces and retail. I dont exactly know what NIMBYs want.. butif they want traffic they just made it a hell of a lot worse because of their own stupidity. Its the Boston way. Every single thing in this city gets downsized considerably.
NIMBYs called a set of 212' foot towers next to a Hyde Park commuter stop "Twin Towers" and asked for a steep revision, and which they got with half as many housing units........ on top of a damn train station.
I dont know about Boston's future, because everything is shot down, reduced by 50% or starts 15 year after its proposed (South Station Tower, Parcel 15, Fenway Center, Winthrop Garage... etc). But its also the cities fault... after how many derailments has the city looked at it and said "We need another study!"... then the cycle repeats. Fix the good damn T already? YOu have plenty of 'studies' that tell you the same thing over and over again... Everything is so layered in this city and things happening elsewhere just dont get done in Massachusetts. We need that NRSL link immediately but the state wants to throw out studies for 10 more years and see if we can get a bypass through Waltham. Seriously? We need the Blue Line extension to Lynn or some sort of light rail to the Seaport. The Seaport will have 50,000 people, 10,000 jobs and ... no light rail service? The silver line doesnt cut it... but they need another study to see commuting patterns! Like its pathetic... Boston's layered system, the BPDA, the MassDOT, the MBTA .. its all pathetic and they are making their issues much worse. Boston has done nothing to the Mbta since the 80s until now.. thats absurd. If they catch up and perform these fixes alongside electrification and Fairmount to high speed they wont have to do much for a while.
It doesnt happen in Chicago and the city has happy hour deals, great nightlife, projects that are improving the city and less restrictive laws that make the city better overall. Boston has to improve greatly or its looking like its going in the direction of San Fran...
Last edited by masssachoicetts; 01-16-2020 at 12:17 PM..
Liquor Licenses are 450k, Happy Hour and Drink Specials are Banned, NIMBYs own the city because YIMBYs don't attend the public hearings... so its really all self-inflicted.
If you think Galleria is bad... you should see the backlash for the Edison Power Plant. The proposal was 1,300 units of housing with maybe 200 parking spaces, a food hall and some retail. Not much. Some. BUt NIMBYs backlashed, fought, cried .. the whole works and said it would bring too much traffic in and that this project needed more retail and parking!! Mind you, commercial developments in Boston bring 4x more traffic than residential units, so their argument makes little to no sense. So the new proposal had 750 units of residential housing. NIMBYs still fought like hell.... we now are in this process 3 years later, back to square one... less than 660 units proposed, a food hall and some office spaces and retail. I dont exactly know what NIMBYs want.. butif they want traffic they just made it a hell of a lot worse because of their own stupidity. Its the Boston way. Every single thing in this city gets downsized considerably.
NIMBYs called a set of 212' foot towers next to a Hyde Park commuter stop "Twin Towers" and asked for a steep revision, and which they got with half as many housing units........ on top of a damn train station.
I dont know about Boston's future, because everything is shot down, reduced by 50% or starts 15 year after its proposed (South Station Tower, Parcel 15, Fenway Center, Winthrop Garage... etc). But its also the cities fault... after how many derailments has the city looked at it and said "We need another study!"... then the cycle repeats. Fix the good damn T already? YOu have plenty of 'studies' that tell you the same thing over and over again... Everything is so layered in this city and things happening elsewhere just dont get done in Massachusetts. We need that NRSL link immediately but the state wants to throw out studies for 10 more years and see if we can get a bypass through Waltham. Seriously? We need the Blue Line extension to Lynn or some sort of light rail to the Seaport. The Seaport will have 50,000 people, 10,000 jobs and ... no light rail service? The silver line doesnt cut it... but they need another study to see commuting patterns! Like its pathetic... Boston's layered system, the BPDA, the MassDOT, the MBTA .. its all pathetic and they are making their issues much worse. Boston has done nothing to the Mbta since the 80s until now.. thats absurd. If they catch up and perform these fixes alongside electrification and Fairmount to high speed they wont have to do much for a while.
It doesnt happen in Chicago and the city has happy hour deals, great nightlife, projects that are improving the city and less restrictive laws that make the city better overall. Boston has to improve greatly or its looking like its going in the direction of San Fran...
It's not all on Boston, the state empowers municipalities far too much and wont allow more liquor licenses or happy hour. The Edison Power PLant kills me when I think about it. its up there with the popeyes.
Its amazing Boston Has the success it does when the area allow itself to bend to every whim of the 55+ crowd. They don't want more educated young professionals around them and they don't want more low income and POC around them either. They wont even pick one! And when they do they don't offer the amenities that group wants!
What I notice is that in Massachusetts, a large majority of the 95/495 towns split the middle (off white/grey). Somewhere in that $550-$750 range fair market value. In Illinois, you notice the blues are darker as the majority, probably $300-$500 market value.
What makes it even tougher in Massachusetts, though, is the shortage of housing as we know. Using some of the comparisons I listed on this thread, Andover, MA has 33 SFH for sale(excluding foreclosures) at 37k people. Only two of those 33 are <$525k. Northbrook, IL has 155 SFH for sale (excluding foreclosure), at 34k people. About 60 of those homes are <$500k. As you move in, toward the cities, Wakefield, MA has 4 SFH for sale at a population of 27k. 1 of those 4 homes are <$550k. Brookfield IL has 50 SFH for sale at a population of 20k. 48 of the 50 homes are <$500k.
What that means is an overwhelming demand, specifically for housing in that $400-$600 range in MA, to the point where folks have been waving inspection and making pre-listed offers for years. Adversely, in IL, where supply has continued to exceed demand, you have a TON of homes for sale in reasonably nice, well situated suburbs.
So, if you are a family, with a normal job that requires a commute to the city... Which sounds more appealing?
Chicago is just one of those places in the US where tourists immediately feel at home, once they're there. So much to see and do ( really dwarfs Boston in this sense), and the prices are much more reasonable. Just a fascinating place...
From an ex-Madison, WI resident (me), who went on weekends, and still goes whenever possible..
And a few of the less glitzy burbs immediately south (not the 'south shore')
By the way, I know you are more familiar with the south/southwest than the north. I am more familiar with the north/northwest than the south. Our experiences of the area/Greater Boston as a whole are different- You are not wrong in many cases, and I am probably not wrong in others. I very much respect your point of view, and appreciate some of the realism.. All cities, not just Boston, could use some insider perspective that isn't all roses.
As an aside, there are a lot more towns than you may realize, that have modern conveniences to the north/northwest. I'd think more than south/southwest, just based on population %, access to Cambridge, and where a lot of the jobs fall in the suburbs- Between Waltham and Woburn on 95, and between Franklin and Andover on 495.
Towns like Burlington/Bedford, Peabody/Danvers/Salem, Westford/Chelmsford/Acton, Woburn/Reading/Lynnfield, Methuen/Haverhill, Westborough/Southborough all have plenty of it. Not a lot of fast food... But, can't imagine that's going to change in MA.
Last edited by mwj119; 01-16-2020 at 02:44 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
