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View Poll Results: Which of these is the trendiest, most forward-looking, intelligent, and well educated METRO area?
St. Louis 19 13.97%
Pittsburgh 80 58.82%
Cincinnati 16 11.76%
Cleveland 21 15.44%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-11-2020, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
In Boston neighborhoods like Roxbury and Dorchester (dah-chista), it is mostly wood frames with a lot of triples, but with some brick rowhouses (including some Boston famed bow-fronted ones) and regular brick apt buildings.
True, Boston also has a lot of brick apartments. IIRC Boston and Cincinnati were the only places in the country outside of NYC where a substantial number of "true apartment buildings" (i.e., tenements) were constructed before the year 1900.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
No question, the Triple is the bread 'n butter of Boston's multi-unit residential housing... Not unlike the ubiquitous Cleveland Double (see below) ... in Cleveland, of course, but not quite as widespread as Boston's triples.

The typical Cleveland double (including a souped-up, brick-faced one on the right):

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4811...8i8192!5m1!1e2
Cleveland doubles are pretty similar to a lot of New England double deckers, which makes sense given who settled Northeast Ohio.

New Haven: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3079...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3190...7i13312!8i6656

Boston:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/13...3!4d-71.084574

Providence: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7964...7i13312!8i6656

some are near replicas!

..suburban Milton MA: https://www.google.com/maps/place/81...3!4d-71.095377
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Wood homes can be nice, but they're so often ruined in lower-income areas when the landlord removes all the trim and puts aluminum (or more recently vinyl) siding all over them.

Brick, in contrast, is much harder to screw up, meaning declining brick neighborhoods have something of a tarnished grandeur as long as they don't become full-on blighted.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
21,637 posts, read 12,793,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
In Boston neighborhoods like Roxbury and Dorchester (dah-chista), it is mostly wood frames with a lot of triples, but with some brick rowhouses (including some Boston famed bow-fronted ones) and regular brick apt buildings.
The Bury and it's "The Chesta" west of Dot Ave, and "Dot" east of it lol


a few rowhomes and tenements in the bury:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3219...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3264...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3269...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3257...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3176...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3259...7i16384!8i8192

tenements in Dorchester:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3061...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3094...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3070...7i16384!8i8192

ornate double deckers: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3040...7i16384!8i8192

a typical Rox-Dot type street: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3077...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3099...7i13312!8i6656
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
21,637 posts, read 12,793,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Wood homes can be nice, but they're so often ruined in lower-income areas when the landlord removes all the trim and puts aluminum (or more recently vinyl) siding all over them.

Brick, in contrast, is much harder to screw up, meaning declining brick neighborhoods have something of a tarnished grandeur as long as they don't become full-on blighted.
Brick is more expensive to maintain. Wen brick goes bad it really goes bad.

Most of the distressed buildings Boston were fairly easily/quickly rehabbed compared to attach brick homes.

Very very few buildings left that look like this anymore in Boston compared to 25-30 years ago: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3036...7i13312!8i6656
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:37 PM
 
4,537 posts, read 5,108,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
Cleveland doubles are pretty similar to a lot of New England double deckers, which makes sense given who settled Northeast Ohio.

New Haven: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3079...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3190...7i13312!8i6656

Boston:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/13...3!4d-71.084574

Providence: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7964...7i13312!8i6656

some are near replicas!

..suburban Milton MA: https://www.google.com/maps/place/81...3!4d-71.095377
You are correct. These generally wood-frame, one-over-the-other/2-flat house-apartment from the late 19th/early 20th centuries, is fairly common through the Northeast and even some parts of the Midwest.

But Cleveland's have a distinct style that evolved (with some minor variations): steep triangular front-to-back roof fronted by a wide triangular hipped, usually winged, 2nd level balcony; thick thick solid/enclosed 2nd level balustrade, often flared (with one central, or 2 side wide eyelets) along the porch which, itself, is supported by solid/heavy pillars, often decorative, resting on a solid brick foundation... The front entrance is usually in the center and often with curved brick balustrades along entrance steps. Cleveland doubles usually have 2 entrance doors to the separate level apartments-- either side-by-side or on opposite sides of the front porch (although many have only a single door). Typically these buildings are set back from the curb and extend deep behind the property line.

Most are wood frame extending from brick or stone bases. A few, more depending on the particular Cleveland neighborhood, are sheathed in brick giving the building a greater solidity.

In my early childhood, I grew up in a neighborhood with tons of them (even lived in one, briefly), and even though a common general type among older NE cities, I can pick out Cleveland Doubles easily due to the above-noted characteristics. As noted, the general style seems to evolved from the late 19th century, but was perfected during and after World War I, around the time Cleveland's population exploded, the materials were cheap to use and the repetitive style meant these units could go up quickly to house many families, often, then, factory workers from Europe or the South or war veterans.

These are prototypical Cleveland Doubles:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4886...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4821...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4787...8i6656!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4861...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4530...8i8192!5m1!1e2

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4601...8i8192!5m1!1e2

Last edited by TheProf; 02-11-2020 at 02:02 PM..
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
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I definitely see the distinction now. I’ve definitely seen more homes look like that in CT-Worcester than eastern MA. Some are VERY close so I definitely get the history.

That being said I’m not in love with the Cleveland Double, almost like it less than the Triple decker which I already don’t like that much.

Rowhomes and Chicago Greystones just look so much nicer and afford a little more privacy. The Triple Decker looks overbuilt and it’s not a lot of privacy or space really. The Cleveland Double looks too suburban and a bit too bulky. There’s also too much stone/brick foundation for my liking. I like it when just a small bottom strip is stone indicating the basement /cellar.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:03 PM
 
1,160 posts, read 1,659,384 times
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I’ve heard that those Cleveland doubles are commonly called “Cleveland duckbills”, but since no one has mentioned that, maybe not?
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Old 02-11-2020, 09:18 PM
 
Location: East Bay, San Francisco Bay Area
23,544 posts, read 24,049,201 times
Reputation: 23967
Pittsburgh.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:33 AM
 
4,537 posts, read 5,108,229 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
I definitely see the distinction now. I’ve definitely seen more homes look like that in CT-Worcester than eastern MA. Some are VERY close so I definitely get the history.

That being said I’m not in love with the Cleveland Double, almost like it less than the Triple decker which I already don’t like that much.
I get it. They're mostly wood, most set back with driveways and are boring to a lot of people. But, actually, I do love them. Why? 1. it's home. 2. It's a style Cleveland can actually claim as its own, and 3. to me, there's actually a kind of Midwestern Gothic about Cleveland Doubles in their monotony. ... and btw, there a number of other wood-frame housing forms from that era that repeat themselves around Cleveland, just not to the extent of the C Doubles... It's more diverse than one might think, with predominate styles of brick apt walk-ups (quads and 6-unit places) and mixed-use Moorish-influenced apt-over-retail buildings on numerous commercial strips and street corners ... even in quiet residential neighborhoods. Many in good shape, many boarded up and crumbling in rougher neighborhoods ... but existing in most every section of the City....

Cleveland even has a number of terrace apartment buildings in older neighborhoods, that appear to many people as rowhouses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
Rowhomes and Chicago Greystones just look so much nicer and afford a little more privacy. The Triple Decker looks overbuilt and it’s not a lot of privacy or space really. The Cleveland Double looks too suburban and a bit too bulky. There’s also too much stone/brick foundation for my liking. I like it when just a small bottom strip is stone indicating the basement /cellar.
Chicago's housing stock is more interesting because of the greater density (mostly alleys, no driveways) and mostly brick and stone construction -- although there's considerable wood-frame housing in different Chicago districts, and even many thrown in more dense neighborhoods near L lines... As noted, previously, Chicago is historically one of the nation's best planned big cities, with the set-aside (from industry) lakefront and wide alleys, used for both residential parking and garages, elevated train lines and utility wires -- Unlike most American big cities, Chicago has practically zero ugly utility lines running along its streets -- both major arteries as well as quiet residential streets.

But while Chicago does have some row houses, the bread 'n butter of Chicago housing is the flat... 2, 3 and 4 flats, depending on the number of stories. In some cases, where developers have a core style of flat for the block (or strip), the flats appear to be row houses, but they actually aren't touching. Example:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9300...8i8192!5m1!1e2

Chicago also has a lot of apartment buildings, both high rise (obviously) and older ones -- either large buildings or walk-ups.
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