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I remember finding Central West End in St. Louis to be surprising in how dense and tall it was when I went last year.
I had the same feeling about CWE when I visited STL during summer 2018. It feels like a Chicago neighborhood and with CWE and other similar nearby neighborhoods, it is surprising STL proper has so little overall population.
I had the same feeling about CWE when I visited STL during summer 2018. It feels like a Chicago neighborhood and with CWE and other similar nearby neighborhoods, it is surprising STL proper has so little overall population.
Yea, it felt like some of the densest Chicago neighborhoods outside of the Loop. It was really bustling, too, even though the temperatures were a bit brisk.
I remember finding Central West End in St. Louis to be surprising in how dense and tall it was when I went last year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf
I had the same feeling about CWE when I visited STL during summer 2018. It feels like a Chicago neighborhood and with CWE and other similar nearby neighborhoods, it is surprising STL proper has so little overall population.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Yea, it felt like some of the densest Chicago neighborhoods outside of the Loop. It was really bustling, too, even though the temperatures were a bit brisk.
St. Louis has mimicked Chicago in many ways demographically. It's still declining, but the population is becoming wealthier and better educated. With all the projects going on in the central corridor and the infill happening in south city, the hope is that the demographic bleed will stop soon. St. Louis' trouble is that much of north city is still in steep decline, much like many areas on the south and west sides of Chicago.
St. Louis' improvements are less obvious than many of its peers though because a lot of the new developments haven't been focused on downtown, and a lot of people just look at downtown and move on. Sure there's still conversions of historic buildings ongoing, in addition to phase II of Ballpark Village, but, in terms of skyscraper development, downtown doesn't have the tallest tower currently under construction in the city. The One Hundred in the CWE is going to be some 50ft taller than One Cardinal Way that's a part of phase II of BPV in downtown.
This lack of downtown focus, although at times annoying, isn't surprising from a historical standpoint. Outsiders think of the Arch as being St. Louis' crown jewel, and in many aspects it is, but daily life for locals is far more intertwined with Forest Park to the west and its surrounding neighborhoods. This is why people are typically surprised at the historic elevator buildings in the CWE, in addition to the dense walkups not only in the CWE but also in some of the neighboring neighborhoods like DeBaliviere Place. This doesn't even get into the rent that many of the towers overlooking the park can command vs many of the lofts in downtown St. Louis.
TL;DR: St. Louis is a lot more than gingerbread houses in south city. That is for sure.
St. Louis has mimicked Chicago in many ways demographically. It's still declining, but the population is becoming wealthier and better educated. With all the projects going on in the central corridor and the infill happening in south city, the hope is that the demographic bleed will stop soon. St. Louis' trouble is that much of north city is still in steep decline, much like many areas on the south and west sides of Chicago.
St. Louis' improvements are less obvious than many of its peers though because a lot of the new developments haven't been focused on downtown, and a lot of people just look at downtown and move on. Sure there's still conversions of historic buildings ongoing, in addition to phase II of Ballpark Village, but, in terms of skyscraper development, downtown doesn't have the tallest tower currently under construction in the city. The One Hundred in the CWE is going to be some 50ft taller than One Cardinal Way that's a part of phase II of BPV in downtown.
This lack of downtown focus, although at times annoying, isn't surprising from a historical standpoint. Outsiders think of the Arch as being St. Louis' crown jewel, and in many aspects it is, but daily life for locals is far more intertwined with Forest Park to the west and its surrounding neighborhoods. This is why people are typically surprised at the historic elevator buildings in the CWE, in addition to the dense walkups not only in the CWE but also in some of the neighboring neighborhoods like DeBaliviere Place. This doesn't even get into the rent that many of the towers overlooking the park can command vs many of the lofts in downtown St. Louis.
TL;DR: St. Louis is a lot more than gingerbread houses in south city. That is for sure.
I'm curious about whether there have been any sort of large scale plans proposed about the rail lines, and most importantly, freeways that break up the south side of the city from the north side.
St. Louis has mimicked Chicago in many ways demographically. It's still declining, but the population is becoming wealthier and better educated. With all the projects going on in the central corridor and the infill happening in south city, the hope is that the demographic bleed will stop soon. St. Louis' trouble is that much of north city is still in steep decline, much like many areas on the south and west sides of Chicago.
St. Louis' improvements are less obvious than many of its peers though because a lot of the new developments haven't been focused on downtown, and a lot of people just look at downtown and move on. Sure there's still conversions of historic buildings ongoing, in addition to phase II of Ballpark Village, but, in terms of skyscraper development, downtown doesn't have the tallest tower currently under construction in the city. The One Hundred in the CWE is going to be some 50ft taller than One Cardinal Way that's a part of phase II of BPV in downtown.
This lack of downtown focus, although at times annoying, isn't surprising from a historical standpoint. Outsiders think of the Arch as being St. Louis' crown jewel, and in many aspects it is, but daily life for locals is far more intertwined with Forest Park to the west and its surrounding neighborhoods. This is why people are typically surprised at the historic elevator buildings in the CWE, in addition to the dense walkups not only in the CWE but also in some of the neighboring neighborhoods like DeBaliviere Place. This doesn't even get into the rent that many of the towers overlooking the park can command vs many of the lofts in downtown St. Louis.
TL;DR: St. Louis is a lot more than gingerbread houses in south city. That is for sure.
Yes, DeBaliviere Place is very impressive. I love the solid and attractive red-brick apts lining the streets, esp Pershing Ave. All these neighborhoods: DeBaliviere Place, Forest Park, Skinker-DeBaliviere blend in, over the border into U. City's DeBaliviere Place. Very dense and walkable -- even better, given that MetroLink Light rail serves this area directly... To me, these areas were the highlight of my weekend visit to St. Louis (although the elevator ride up to the top of the Arch was big fun.
Downtown wasn't bad -- it's definitely attractive, esp if you like old architecture, and it was clear that Washington Street was the spine of downtown's retail/entertainment district. It was a bit on the quiet side... Next time, I'd like to visit the Botanical Gardens, the Forest Park museums, Lafayette Sq and Soulard. St. Louis has a lot to offer and, even though the residential architecture is different (more brick and Chicago-like in many ways), it echoes Cleveland a lot.
I'm curious about whether there have been any sort of large scale plans proposed about the rail lines, and most importantly, freeways that break up the south side of the city from the north side.
Not that I'm aware of. The city simply doesn't have the money. Additionally the city is also trying to regain lost footing as logistical center for both freight and river traffic, and those rail lines are very much active. That being said, there are projects underway to essentially work with the hand that's been dealt though.
The Gateway Arch National Park underwent its renovation that opened it more up with downtown. There's now the one block highway cap over I-70 between Market and Chestnut. This is in addition to the two pedestrian bridges: the first is a block south of the cap at Walnut and the second is a block north on Pine. They also removed the large parking garage in Laclede's Landing. This directly opened the Arch grounds to the Landing, in addition to being able to enter it at the corner of Wash Ave and Memorial Dr from downtown.
As for projects currently underway, SLU's large scale redevelopment in its attempt to connect its undergraduate campus with its hospital and medical school has to contend with those active rail tracks and the highway. I'll be intrigued to see how they handle it, but they claim they want seamless development. So maybe some sort of small cap?
In terms of pending projects, there's the Brickline Greenway (formerly the Chouteau Greenway), which is being designed to better connect St. Louis via a greenway down the industrial spine that in the vicinity of Chouteau Ave. It'll go all the way form Forest Park to the river. https://greatriversgreenway.org/MakingOf/
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