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You clearly haven't been to Pittsburgh in the last ten years if you think Garfield is just as bad as North St. Louis...
2017 was my last time there. Also common misconception is that all of North St. Louis looks like a moonscape. It's a large area. Most blocks look similar to what you would see in Garfield, some even better.
2017 was my last time there. Also common misconception is that all of North St. Louis looks like a moonscape. It's a large area. Most blocks look similar to what you would see in Garfield, some even better.
This was a tough one for me but I gave the nod to Pittsburgh (Maybe I'm just a homer? Bite me?!)
I've lived in Pittsburgh for a decade. I've visited both Greater Cleveland and Greater Cincinnati very extensively over the past several years. We vacationed in St. Louis last year and will be returning next year (my fiance is from Missouri).
"On the streets" the city proper of Pittsburgh just feels like it has become so much younger, so much more affluent, so much more Asian, so much more better-educated, so much more sophisticated, so much more "techie", etc. over the past decade. It's nothing short of incredible to see the churn going on in the city proper.
On the metro area level, as was the point of this thread? Not necessarily so rosy. Butler and Washington Counties each have exurban fringe areas full of upper-middle-class white Republicans who jumped over the county line to save money on property taxes (not realizing that they're truly no better off when they factoring in their higher transportation costs, but I digress). I believe Cranberry Township (Butler County) has about 30,000+ residents, and the vast majority of them are six-figure households with at least a Bachelor's Degree. Same with the neighboring townships. Southwest of the city just across the line in Washington County you have Peters Township and Cecil Township, both of which are about the same size as Cranberry Township combined and both of which have the same demographics as Cranberry Township. The rest of Butler County and the rest of Washington County? Fairly average overall. Beaver County feels very working-class/inert overall---not "trendy" or "educated" or "sophisticated" at all. Fayette County is just in freefall socioeconomically. I'm surprised it's even still part of the metro area because it's very tough to commute from there into the city for work and is easier from most parts of that county to commute into Morgantown, WV, actually, for work (Pittsburgh's MSA would actually JUMP quite a bit socioeconomically if we gave Fayette County to Morgantown, WV's MSA someday). Armstrong County is similarly declining, like Fayette County, but Armstrong County is also sparsely-populated. That just leaves Westmoreland County, which is a mixed bag---sort of like a bigger Beaver County.
Allegheny County has ~50% of the metropolitan population and is booming socioeconomically, and I'd estimate another 10% of the metro area lives in the booming exurban fringes along the county line. So the question would be do any of the three other MSA's have >60% of the population doing well? I'd hazard a bet to say that Cincinnati and St. Louis come close and might even match Pittsburgh on that front.
My order would be:
1.) Pittsburgh
2.) St. Louis & Cincinnati (tie)
3.) Cleveland
2017 was my last time there. Also common misconception is that all of North St. Louis looks like a moonscape. It's a large area. Most blocks look similar to what you would see in Garfield, some even better.
Generally speaking the way it works is the further down the hill towards Penn Avenue, the more gentrified it is. Penn Avenue itself is pretty yuppie these days, with yoga, a gluten-free bakery, nightclubs, art galleries, etc. Areas further uphill are indeed still pretty blighted.
Pittsburgh and Cleveland will be the first out of the 4 to become hip and trendy, kind of like the way Portland did. Pittsburgh will be the first since it already has a comparitively low murder rate to the other 3, and it already has the best and trendiest reputation of the 4.
Cleveland will come next. It's reputation is a mix of good and bad. Some bad parts of its history include the Cuyahoga River catching fire, the million balloon pollution, and the free beer night thing. These all happened in the 80s or earlier though. People born after 2005 will see these things the same way we look at things that happened in the 40s-50s, so long ago it doesn't even matter.
I think the last thing Cleveland needs to do is get rid of Chief Wahoo and everything else is fine. It's centrally located on a great lake. Great location IMO.
Nope, Columbus is taking all of Cleveland's potential shine. A significant number of people from NE Ohio have moved south to Columbus for it's economy, youth, trajectory etc... Cleveland is ahead on mass transit, but nowadays that's about it.
The economy simply isn't dynamic enough to warrant a population surge. And between the 3 C's, Cleveland is still the most hood, with the most Superfund sites within city limits, and the highest crime rate. I like the place, but it has a serious uphill battle, and the economy and weather don't help the situation at all. Eds and meds simply ain't enough to make due in a region of over 3 million!!!
You know what? This feels like an anti-Cleveland forum here for some reason. It's almost like folks from Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Cincy just want a win for their cities. It's basically like everyone who's posted on here are saying, "Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis are good, Cleveland bad." It always feel like that America needs a city to rip on and make fun of might as well be Cleveland. Correct me if I'm wrong.
2017 was my last time there. Also common misconception is that all of North St. Louis looks like a moonscape. It's a large area. Most blocks look similar to what you would see in Garfield, some even better.
And Garfield has continued to improve a bit since the last time you were here in the last three years. A lot of new homes have gone up there in the last couple years.
You know what? This feels like an anti-Cleveland forum here for some reason. It's almost like folks from Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Cincy just want a win for their cities. It's basically like everyone who's posted on here are saying, "Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis are good, Cleveland bad." It always feel like that America needs a city to rip on and make fun of might as well be Cleveland. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I absolutely love Cleveland, and I would say these four cities have a lot in common and also a lot of distinctions. Cleveland still feels like the biggest city/metro in Ohio in my opinion, even if the numbers no longer prove that. All four of these cities have more character and history and soul than 90% of the rest of America.
You know what? This feels like an anti-Cleveland forum here for some reason. It's almost like folks from Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Cincy just want a win for their cities. It's basically like everyone who's posted on here are saying, "Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis are good, Cleveland bad." It always feel like that America needs a city to rip on and make fun of might as well be Cleveland. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Oh God here we go again...
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