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Just because you dont have the knowledge of what Im talking about doesnt mean its not a fact because it is fact
What you dont understand is when a city is incorporated has nothing to do with the growth of the cities footprint and population.
For instance,on 1860 Dallas had 608 people ,Atlanta had 9,554.In fact Atlanta for many years had double the population of Dallas for decades and it wasnt till the 1950s did Dallas surpass Atlanta in population, Not from growth but annexation.
Atlanta annexed Buckhead in the 1950s Dallas annexed areas twice as big as Buckhead many times leading up to present times
Charlotte,NC was founded in 1768 yet its core of its core of downtown buildings and street pattern
Miami was founded in 1896 but it was more than 60 years later did begin to grow and have a significant downtown.
So what you mentioned is flawed realty and lack of understanding of the history of a cities growth beyond looking at when it first got a charter. Atlanta was a city before it got a charter.
About the grid: Dallas
from Wiki
Atlanta
Dallas has a supergirid which extends further from the core.This explains why Dallas has more urban density growth the further you get from downtown as Atlanta has a (not perfect )gridded downtown core which is why its so much more urban as most on here admit.
About the Eastside of Dallas:
the best total cost of all the developments in teh East Quarter at best on the high end is way under $300 million total investment compared to a similar development in Atlanta called Centennial Yards.
Now here are the facts on the Centennial Yards Develoment Downtown Atlanta
South Dallas and Fair oaks equivalent in Atlanta I would say would be the Westend ,although the Westend is closer to Atlanta's downtown CBD than Fair Oaks to Dalllas CBD.Yall correct me if im wrong.
My point is even in the Westend ,which largely is a lower income area ,its still very urban with a huge amount of pedestrian activity as a mall and the MARTA subway stop is there.
Due to the Beltline,home prices that were hit hard during the recession are now more than 125%. In 2007,it was article in national newspapers describing it as the worst area in the nation for housing fraud. Modest homes in a neighborhood that at that time had not face entrification like now but was seeing huge price appraisals. It hurt the area really bad but now home prices are stable and correct but have gone up so much due to the Beltline.
So yes these are facts.Not an opinion.
You proved my point as all you posted were developments that in no way on a massive scale like the Gulch(Centeenial Yards) project,or GSU/Summerhill University Village .Its these types of massive infill projects that show how ATL's urban footprint is moving at a faster level.Its not homerism.its just facts
Dallas passed Atlanta up in the 1930’s and has been larger ever since. The natural resource big oil is what fueled Dallas growth. Dallas growth patterns and grid changed once the automobile came into the picture. Massive freeways were built that choked downtown Dallas off from adjacent communities. The city has been actively working to undue these mistakes. The deck park over I35 that connects uptown with downtown Dallas and the eventual tear down of I345 that will reconnect downtown Dallas with Deep Ellum are just two things the city is doing right a wrong. The Eastside of downtown Dallas is a work in progress no doubt but I fully expect it to develop like Uptown Dallas but with much closer attention to detail because of the historical significance of Deep Ellum.
Atlanta West end to downtown Atlanta is 2.8 miles
Fair park to downtown Dallas is 2.9 miles.
You dont understand the development patterns of Dallas, which is why you feel your town is way ahead in development and revitalization efforts. In Dallas it’s a step by step process that builds up to what your seeing now in Uptown Dallas. It’s a reason companies like Uber have set up shop in the CBD and companies likes Amazon are actively looking for commericial space in Uptown Dallas. In addition AT&T Discovery District will be opening in downtown Dallas in May. You can underestimate Dallas at your own peril. It’s a reason the Dallas region boost the largest GDP in the south and continues to lead the nation in commercial, job, and population growth.
Atlanta is growing sizable TODs, but the riders appear to tilt lower-wage. That's useful but missing a big opportunity.
You need to ride the Gold & Red Lines during rush hour, it's like a different system
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Regarding Buckhead, I was referring to the central square mile or so being spread out.
Are you talking about the Lenox Square area, or the actual Buckhead Village area? The Village is considered the Central area.
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Savi...I went twice, and on the second time bought one thing so the price stood out...a little $9.50 packet of yogurt almonds. Corner stores don't benefit from economies of scale so it's not surprising. My fault for not paying attention.
Savi is awful. They're a huge ripoff, and it's a terrible company that treats their employees like crap. The have an excellent PR machine though, the only reason people are enamored of them in my opinion
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Good to hear about the Underground expansion.
For garages, I'm also talking about brand new ones. Midtown's new towers tend to come with parking podiums for example, including the one I stayed in.
As has been explained before, we have underlying solid granite here. There are a few underground garages, but in most areas they are prohibitively expensive due to the granite being very near the surface. If you used the Peachtree Center train station, that's a perfect up close example on view.
Let’s do some fact checking. You stated Atlanta has an older core. That’s not true. Dallas was founded in 1841 and Atlanta was founded in 1847, which makes it virtually impossible for Atlanta urban core to be older than Dallas urban core. You stated that Atlanta is working with a larger griddy area. That also not true. That will be considered an opinion unless you can back your claim up with some solid proof. Have you ever looked at pictures of Downtown Dallas from the Eastside? It’s very griddy and littered with old warehouses. It’s anything but glitzy which Dallas is often associated with. One of the reason Uber is building a campus in Deep Ellum is because it likes the character and old griddy feel of areas east of downtown Dallas.
Don't want to sound like i'm picking on Dallas but Atlanta does have an older core. It was a more significant city in the south earlier than Dallas as well. Dallas was incorporated as a town in 1856, Atlanta was named Atlanta in 1847 but the city was Marthasville and was incorporated in 1843. Before than it was Terminus and had already began operating as a functioning settlement. From the 1840s to 1860s Atlanta had grown to be a small but important operating city. Dallas had 698 people in 1860. Atlanta had 9,554 people in 1860. Antebellum Atlanta was a real functioning city pre Civil War. Dallas wasn't even settled properly in that time frame.
Atlanta already had 5 tall buildings before Dallas had it's first. Atlanta's first was the Equitable building in 1892, Dallas first was Praetorian building built in 1909. It's pretty obvious to anyone that knows the history of this country that Atlanta has a older core than Dallas. Texas cities urban development didn't really pick up till after the oil boom. That's when cities like Dallas and Houston developed at a fast rate.
Dallas passed Atlanta up in the 1930’s and has been larger ever since. The natural resource big oil is what fueled Dallas growth. Dallas growth patterns and grid changed once the automobile came into the picture. Massive freeways were built that choked downtown Dallas off from adjacent communities. The city has been actively working to undue these mistakes. The deck park over I35 that connects uptown with downtown Dallas and the eventual tear down of I345 that will reconnect downtown Dallas with Deep Ellum are just two things the city is doing right a wrong. The Eastside of downtown Dallas is a work in progress no doubt but I fully expect it to develop like Uptown Dallas but with much closer attention to detail because of the historical significance of Deep Ellum.
Atlanta West end to downtown Atlanta is 2.8 miles
Fair park to downtown Dallas is 2.9 miles.
You dont understand the development patterns of Dallas, which is why you feel your town is way ahead in development and revitalization efforts. In Dallas it’s a step by step process that builds up to what your seeing now in Uptown Dallas. It’s a reason companies like Uber have set up shop in the CBD and companies likes Amazon are actively looking for commericial space in Uptown Dallas. In addition AT&T Discovery District will be opening in downtown Dallas in May. You can underestimate Dallas at your own peril. It’s a reason the Dallas region boost the largest GDP in the south and continues to lead the nation in commercial, job, and population growth.
You asked for facts.I gave them to you.Youve now moved on to irrelevant factors.
There is absolutely no doubt Dallas has a staggering econnomy. I nor anyone else has said otherwise.If this was about economies ,Dallas would win hands down.
Dallas is also growing faster,but its not growing so fast that Atlanta is in the dust.This is one reason I said what I said about there can be two things that are factual and true.
All those companies are have done the same thing in Atlanta.Amazon,Twitter,NCR,etc
You said I didnt provide facts so I did.I gave you real numbers showing the size,cost and scope of certain projects in Atlanta versus those in Dallas in side by side comparison.
I did EXACTLY what you asked by backing up my initial statements about large scale developments Atlanta had that Dallas did not.
You provided what YOU thought was comparable. I showed just how grand these projects were in Atlanta compared to those YOU posted about Dallas.
I asked you to show me something in all of Dallas if I mispoke or was incorrect. Instead you telling me I dont understand the development patterns of Dallas but havent been able to debunk anything Ive said
I keep telling you that all what you are saying is not only happening in Atlanta and Dallas but almost every major growing city.
The push for increasing urban density and reimaging American downtowns by people and companies moving from the suburbs is everywhere.
Its clear you arent trying to hear anyone else. You just dont want to accept the fact that Atlanta may not have the fastet growing population or economy but as a the inner cores go,it is significant more urban and gives a better urban experience than what Dallas has now and in the pipeline.
Judging from the amount of people visiting Atlanta vs Dallas, their population sizes(downtown)and attractions,Dallas is doing great things but Atlanta is already ahead while spending more money on larger developments than Dallas for futire projects and you have yet to prove me wrong.
Don't want to sound like i'm picking on Dallas but Atlanta does have an older core. It was a more significant city in the south earlier than Dallas as well. Dallas was incorporated as a town in 1856, Atlanta was named Atlanta in 1847 but the city was Marthasville and was incorporated in 1843. Before than it was Terminus and had already began operating as a functioning settlement. From the 1840s to 1860s Atlanta had grown to be a small but important operating city. Dallas had 698 people in 1860. Atlanta had 9,554 people in 1860. Antebellum Atlanta was a real functioning city pre Civil War. Dallas wasn't even settled properly in that time frame.
Atlanta already had 5 tall buildings before Dallas had it's first. Atlanta's first was the Equitable building in 1892, Dallas first was Praetorian building built in 1909. It's pretty obvious to anyone that knows the history of this country that Atlanta has a older core than Dallas. Texas cities urban development didn't really pick up till after the oil boom. That's when cities like Dallas and Houston developed at a fast rate.
You are being mean to Dallas! Stop that truth telling!
You asked for facts.I gave them to you.Youve now moved on to irrelevant factors.
There is absolutely no doubt Dallas has a staggering econnomy. I nor anyone else has said otherwise.If this was about economies ,Dallas would win hands down.
Dallas is also growing faster,but its not growing so fast that Atlanta is in the dust.This is one reason I said what I said about there can be two things that are factual and true.
All those companies are have done the same thing in Atlanta.Amazon,Twitter,NCR,etc
You said I didnt provide facts so I did.I gave you real numbers showing the size,cost and scope of certain projects in Atlanta versus those in Dallas in side by side comparison.
I did EXACTLY what you asked by backing up my initial statements about large scale developments Atlanta had that Dallas did not.
You provided what YOU thought was comparable. I showed just how grand these projects were in Atlanta compared to those YOU posted about Dallas.
I asked you to show me something in all of Dallas if I mispoke or was incorrect. Instead you telling me I dont understand the development patterns of Dallas but havent been able to debunk anything Ive said
I keep telling you that all what you are saying is not only happening in Atlanta and Dallas but almost every major growing city.
The push for increasing urban density and reimaging American downtowns by people and companies moving from the suburbs is everywhere.
Its clear you arent trying to hear anyone else. You just dont want to accept the fact that Atlanta may not have the fastet growing population or economy but as a the inner cores go,it is significant more urban and gives a better urban experience than what Dallas has now and in the pipeline.
Judging from the amount of people visiting Atlanta vs Dallas, their population sizes(downtown)and attractions,Dallas is doing great things but Atlanta is already ahead while spending more money on larger developments than Dallas for futire projects and you have yet to prove me wrong.
SMH...Dude you seriously think Atlanta is the only one doing mega projects? There are mega projects going on all over Dallas. Here are some of them. You make it seem like Atlanta is do so much more, which is just silly.
SMH...Dude you seriously think Atlanta is the only one doing mega projects? There are mega projects going on all over Dallas. Here are some of them. You make it seem like Atlanta is do so much more, which is just silly.
Where did I say this?I made some statements you didnt like,You questioned my credibility and asked for facts in which I gave you.Now you are saying something I never said.
Look.The Atlanta Beltline is one of the largest Urban renewal projetc in North America.PERIOD.FACT.
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Now, a vast nonprofit project called the BeltLine is transforming 22 miles of defunct railroad ringing the city into parks and trails, making it one of the largest—and at $4.8 billion one of the most expensive—urban renewal projects under way in the U.S. Above, a couple takes an early-morning jog on the BeltLine.DUSTIN CHAMBERS FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
All those Dallas projects combined that you posted still doesnt add up to the complete amount of development the Beltline project alone has generated and its not even finished yet.
Thats what I was saying.I didnt even mention the Beltline before but its an example of the scale oif these huge projects in Atlanta.
You keep posting projects but you seem to miss the fact that NONE of them can match the investment amount or size of those projects I have posteted.
I never said Dallas wasnt growing.I simply made a distinction in the type of development in each city
Last edited by CleverOne; 02-09-2020 at 11:00 PM..
Shocked at the ATL posters not thinking Dallas is doing big projects.
Are you serious? lol
And hate to break it to everyone, but Intown Atlanta and Central Dallas really aren’t that different. Especially when comparing DT/MT Atlanta to DT/UT Dallas. Very similar built environments. Atlanta did get a head start on updating their pedestrian infrastructure on the main thoroughfares in Midtown back in the mid 2000s. That’s something Uptown Dallas is finally pulling together, but still not that big of a difference.
Atlanta’s core seems to stand out more due to its sheer size in comparison to it being a smaller city and metro than Dallas and the areas outside of the core being much lower density. Also, Atlanta is the big city to GA and the surrounding states. Dallas has Houston right down the road.
Shocked at the ATL posters not thinking Dallas is doing big projects.
Are you serious? lol
And hate to break it to everyone, but Intown Atlanta and Central Dallas really aren’t that different. Especially when comparing DT/MT Atlanta to DT/UT Dallas. Very similar built environments. Atlanta did get a head start on updating their pedestrian infrastructure on the main thoroughfares in Midtown back in the mid 2000s. That’s something Uptown Dallas is finally pulling together, but still not that big of a difference.
Atlanta’s core seems to stand out more due to its sheer size in comparison to it being a smaller city and metro than Dallas and the areas outside of the core being much lower density. Also, Atlanta is the big city to GA and the surrounding states. Dallas has Houston right down the road.
What ATlanta poster said this?It wasnt me so please dont make up fake arguments.Ga back and read what I said not what you WISH I had said.
You guys and this "small size" statements which have nothing to with urbanized areas as growth doesnt just stop at the city limits.
Atlanta and Philadelphia are the exact same size almost.
Nashville is 526 sq miles .
Phoenix-517
So your size argument is just irrelevant nonsense.
Chicago is only big city in Illinois.
Boston in Massachusetts
Phoenix in AZ
Las Vegas in NV
So please tell me what does having more than one city in the state have to do with anything we are discussing here? Stop making excuses
If Atlanta and Dallas core was not so far apart then why is Atlanta;s downown population more than double the size of Dallas downtown ?
Why are there so many more downtown Atlanta neighborhoods with high walkscores than in Dallas
Last edited by CleverOne; 02-09-2020 at 11:24 PM..
What ATlanta poster said this?It wasnt me so please dont make up fake arguments.Ga back and read what I said not what you WISH I had said.
You guys and this "small size" statements which have nothing to with urbanized areas as growth doesnt just stop at the city limits.
Atlanta and Philadelphia are the exact same size almost.
Nashville is 526 sq miles .
Phoenix-517
So your size argument is just irrelevant nonsense.
Chicago is only big city in Illinois.
Boston in Massachusetts
Phoenix in AZ
Las Vegas in NV
So please tell me what does having more than one city in the state have to do with anything we are discussing here? Stop making excuses
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Originally Posted by CleverOne
I did EXACTLY what you asked by backing up my initial statements about large scale developments Atlanta had that Dallas did not.
Just from this statement alone one can imply or interpret that you felt Atlanta was the only one doing mega projects. I just didn’t make this up out of the thin air you know. One would think with the Metroplex robust growth that Dallas would be responsible for a sizable chunk of it you know.
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