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Arlington wins in jobs and that's it, it loses on every urban front to JC. It's basically a closer in Stamford. Both are nice locales. Very livable.
Jersey City isn't all that blighted. It's there for sure but its not the predominant condition. It's the most complete urban/urbane experience here by a long shot.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Originally Posted by jessemh431
Yeah Arlington comes close since it is actually 4 separate lines with 2 per tunnel, the same way PATH works. So to me, the tie-breakers are that 1) PATH runs 24/7 (which is a bonus for night owls and a massive benefit for night shift workers/service employees); 2) PATH is a flat fare; and 3) JC has good transit within itself thanks to a proliferation NJT buses, JSQ being one of only three Port Authority bus terminals (along with PABT Midtown and GWB Station), jitney routes throughout the city, and the HBLR.
Car tunnels and bridges in both are absolutely horrible commutes so I wouldn't say either wins there lol. But for alternatives to typical driving/trains/buses commutes, ferries are more accessible and "doable" than biking. I wish there was a pedestrian bridge across the Hudson from JC to NYC sometimes for when PATH decides to have a meltdown, but the ferries are a better option than biking when it's 100 and humid in summer and you have to wear a suit for work and I think more people would rather take a ferry than ride a bike when the weather is bad/cold/hot or use it as an alternative form of transportation when subways are bad and you do it spur of the moment to get home.
Without a doubt both are better than Stamford, though, which only has Metro North. There are just some things that I prefer about the JC transit options over Arlington. And I think most would agree that flat fare 24/7 subway access + HBLR + bus terminals + city buses + more walkable street layout + ferry terminals probably puts JC slightly above Arlington.
Arlington is more closely connected to DT DC than JC is to lower Manhattan though.
There is no tie break when you have thousands of people, walking, jogging, bicycling, or taking e-scooters across the bridges between Arlington and DC. PATH and ferry are the only ways you can connect without driving from JC to Manhattan. PATH as we're discussing has the same amount of entry points in to Manhattan that Arlington does to DC. Obviously DC/DMV is smaller than NYC, but there is more directly connecting:
Arlington to DC:
Key Bridge (bike, pedestrian, e-scooter etc.)
Roosevelt bridge (bike, pedestrian, e-scooter etc.)
Arlington Memorial bridge (bike, pedestrian, e-scooter etc.)
14th St bridge (this is technically two bridges) (bike, pedestrian, e-scooter etc.)
Rosslyn Metro tunnel (Orange, Blue, Silver Lines)
Metro Yellow line bridge
Long Bridge (VRE commuter rail, Amtrak)
That's at least 7 connections or 8 (if you count the two bridges of 395) Arlington directly has with DC connecting it to the core/downtown.
Jersey City to Manhattan:
2 PATH tunnels to lower Manhattan
Holland Tunnel
A plethora of ferries
This basically means that on the ground level where people are able to see activity Arlington, VA is much more visibly and literally "connected" to DC than JC is Manhattan, regardless of hours of train operations. Obviously those connections increase up towards Hoboken and beyond, but it's a big difference of being able to walk/bike etc to a location than train, ferry, or swim. DC has more than just Metro connecting from Arlington so it actually has more rail connection going into town not equal.
Last edited by the resident09; 02-19-2020 at 11:49 AM..
Arlington is more closely connected to DT DC than JC is to lower Manhattan though.
There is no tie break when you have thousands of people, walking, jogging, bicycling, or taking e-scooters across the bridges between Arlington and DC. PATH and ferry are the only ways you can connect without driving from JC to Manhattan. PATH as we're discussing has the same amount of entry points in to Manhattan that Arlington does to DC. Obviously DC/DMV is smaller than NYC, but there is more directly connecting:
Arlington to DC:
Key Bridge (bike, pedestrian, e-scooter etc.)
Roosevelt bridge (bike, pedestrian, e-scooter etc.)
Arlington Memorial bridge (bike, pedestrian, e-scooter etc.)
14th St bridge (this is technically two bridges) (bike, pedestrian, e-scooter etc.)
Rosslyn Metro tunnel (Orange, Silver Lines)
Metro Yellow line bridge
Long Bridge (VRE commuter rail, Amtrak)
That's at least 7 connections or 8 (if you count the two bridges of 395) Arlington directly has with DC connecting it to the core/downtown.
Jersey City to Manhattan:
2 PATH tunnels to lower Manhattan
Holland Tunnel
A plethora of ferries
This basically means that on the ground level where people are able to see activity Arlington, VA is much more visibly and literally "connected" to DC than JC is Manhattan, regardless of hours of train operations. Obviously those connections increase up towards Hoboken and beyond, but it's a big difference of being able to walk/bike etc to a location than train, ferry, or swim. DC has more than just Metro connecting from Arlington so it actually has more rail connection going into town not equal.
JC is half the land mass of Arlington though and connected to a much more interesting and important city.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
Arlington wins in jobs and that's it, it loses on every urban front to JC. It's basically a closer in Stamford. Both are nice locales. Very livable.
Jersey City isn't all that blighted. It's there for sure but its not the predominant condition. It's the most complete urban/urbane experience here by a long shot.
Arlington wins on schools, jobs, shopping, and total public transport connection to the center city. At best JC ties on transit as it does have strong coverage and longer hours.
Arlington wins in jobs and that's it, it loses on every urban front to JC. It's basically a closer in Stamford. Both are nice locales. Very livable.
Jersey City isn't all that blighted. It's there for sure but its not the predominant condition. It's the most complete urban/urbane experience here by a long shot.
Yeah definitely Arlington is a great place to live. I wouldn't mind living there if I ever moved to DMV. But JC is by far the most complete city with the best urban amenities.
Serious question, though. Does DC treat Arlington/Alexandria the way that NYC treats JC? As in, NYC cannot fathom the idea that a place in NJ can be close to Manhattan? People will sit on subways for hours to traverse NYC, but the thought of crossing the "wrong" river (the Hudson rather than the East) causes a visceral reaction even when JC is actually close to most parts of Manhattan than almost anything in the city. Even when I tell people that JC has the best Mexican food, New Yorkers often just don't want to hear it even though I'm from LA and I know good tacos. They just can't process the idea in their head that anything in NJ can be better than a dumpster fire, let alone actually be better than anything in NYC. I've had people tell me that I live far away from the city when they're from Westchester or random Queens neighborhoods like Ridgewood...
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
JC is half the land mass of Arlington though and connected to a much more interesting and important city.
You're making my point, JC is tiny to compare to Arlington which is only 26 sq mi itself. The level of importance of DC nor NY is relevant here, as Arlington beats JC in almost every category but food.
I'm beginning to waver on "big city feel" actually, as Arlington has "skyscrapers" and multiple walkable nodes.
Arlington wins on schools, jobs, shopping, and total public transport connection to the center city. At best JC ties on transit as it does have strong coverage and longer hours.
Arlington way win for car/pedestrian transit, but I still am not convinced whatsoever that it can even tie JC for public transit--both within itself and into the nearby major city to the east. Also, JC's urban layout is just so much more conducive to public transit it really doesn't even come close. Plus, even if more vehicle traffic tunnels/bridges were built connecting JC to Manhattan, it wouldn't be for the benefit of JC residents. It would just be a further congestion zone that JC residents would need to suffer through for the benefit of suburbanites. JC only uses PATH and ferries into Manhattan, basically never a car. In fact, like I said before, JC has one of the lowest car ownership rates in the country so extra vehicle tunnels/bridges literally would just end up being more of a burden for JC than anything else. A pedestrian/bike bridge over the Hudson would be more useful, but still, the Hudson is pretty wide around JC and PATH would be much quicker unless there are some delays.
Also for schools, like I said, not that familiar. However, I do know that JC public schools are improving greatly and it has one of the top high schools in the country. But this also would have more to do with Arlington being far more suburban and family oriented than JC.
You're making my point, JC is tiny to compare to Arlington which is only 26 sq mi itself. The level of importance of DC nor NY is relevant here, as Arlington beats JC in almost every category but food.
I'm beginning to waver on "big city feel" actually, as Arlington has "skyscrapers" and multiple walkable nodes.
Lol come on now. We can all have a little bit of bias here, but to actually claim Arlington has the bigger city feel? That's actually laughable. JC by far and away is one of the most urban places in the country, and likely the most urban/big city feeling city that's not the core of an MSA.
And if anything, the fact that JC has double the density of Arlington due to a larger population in almost half the land size proves that it is the more urban and big city feeling one. Arlington does not have skyscrapers like JC does and its urban zones are absolutely nothing like anything in JC. JC is far more urban and city-like.
Arlington wins on schools, jobs, shopping, and total public transport connection to the center city. At best JC ties on transit as it does have strong coverage and longer hours.
Shopping is highly debatable as JC is right next to manhattan.
Fairfield County has some very nice retail too.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 02-19-2020 at 12:11 PM..
I'm beginning to waver on "big city feel" actually, as Arlington has "skyscrapers" and multiple walkable nodes.
Yeah, no. Jersey City is definitely more urban. Come on now.
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