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No I just posted citywide walkscores. You are free to extol the virtues of San Diego, that's not my job here.
Right, and you very well know how fallacious that is when talking about how urban an area is. The physical sizes and layouts of the two municipalities vary greatly. There are definitely ways to use walkscore in a way that more accurately addresses the question, but you have a very strong tendency to intentionally mislead in instances where it favors what you favor. It's been a lot of years on this forum and you continue to do it, and at this point you're probably too old and set in your ways to ever actually change this.
Or maybe just don't post misleading information? You know...like zooming in on an urban area of Oakland and then showing an area the width of Rhode Island for San Diego...
It's a regional comparison. Your job is to stay on topic and not post misleading information. I personally do not care if San Diego is more urban. But I do care about people posting misleading information that results in vague, incorrect generalizations.
Oakland has the strongest case, for sure. Overall, I think it's fairly close at a regional level.
No misleading information.
Earlier in this thread I posted this:
Contiguous clusters of walk score 50+
Oakland
29 miles North-South
88 Emeryville
83 Berkeley
82 Albany
74 Oakland
70 San Pablo
66 Alameda
64 El Cerrito
63 San Leandro
57 Richmond
56 San Lorenzo
55 Hayward
San Diego
14 miles North-South
67 Imperial Beach
66 National City
57 El Cajon
51 Coronado
51 San Diego
The Oakland-Berkeley urban core is dense and walkable over an area that far outsizes most cities that are much larger(not referring to SD), Ive always suspected this in my travels around the country but never actually calculated it.
All of this notwithstanding, I'm inclined to say SD and Oakland are about the same as far as being 'urban' because the CA coastal urban areas are fairly similar in their density and look. Of course, SD is far larger as a city, but we're looking at urban aspects, so Oakland makes its arguments.
Oakland
29 miles North-South
88 Emeryville
83 Berkeley
82 Albany
74 Oakland
70 San Pablo
66 Alameda
64 El Cerrito
63 San Leandro
57 Richmond
56 San Lorenzo
55 Hayward
San Diego
14 miles North-South
67 Imperial Beach
66 National City
57 El Cajon
51 Coronado
51 San Diego
All of this notwithstanding, I'm inclined to say SD and Oakland are about the same as far as being 'urban' because the CA coastal urban areas are fairly similar in their density and look. Of course, SD is far larger as a city, but we're looking at urban aspects, so Oakland makes its arguments.
You very well understand that there is a larger degree of granularity that walkscore has, municipalities in different areas vary widely in size and number, and that the East Bay's geography strongly favors a North-South Axis. You are told this repeatedly, but it doesn't matter because you enjoy any metric, however misleading, that points to what you favor.
You very well understand that there is a larger degree of granularity that walkscore has, municipalities in different areas vary widely in size and number, and that the East Bay's geography strongly favors a North-South Axis. You are told this repeatedly, but it doesn't matter because you enjoy any metric, however misleading, that points to what you favor.
Except I coroborrated that with an actual zip code density data and both cities have clusters in the 10,000+ppsm that are about the same size, so spare me this gibberish about some unfair north-south axis.
Furthermore, forward your grievances to walk score, and lastly, no one here is beholden to you or your chastening so you can run along with that.
You very well understand that there is a larger degree of granularity that walkscore has, municipalities in different areas vary widely in size and number, and that the East Bay's geography strongly favors a North-South Axis. You are told this repeatedly, but it doesn't matter because you enjoy any metric, however misleading, that points to what you favor.
Yeah, walkscore is pretty useless, it gives my house a 65 and the one across the street an 85! I'm in an urban streetcar neighborhood at 12k ppsm, they should be identical.
Also, I add up 250k above 10k+ ppsm for San Diego. All three areas are measurably similar in urbanity and density within their cores, with San Diego having a more central built-up urban center of high rises (heights limited by our downtown airport) than the others. People arguing they are wildly different much less discernibly so are patently wrong.
Yeah, walkscore is pretty useless, it gives my house a 65 and the one across the street an 85! I'm in an urban streetcar neighborhood at 12k ppsm, they should be identical.
Also, I add up 250k above 10k+ ppsm for San Diego. All three areas are measurably similar in urbanity and density, with San Diego having a more central built up urban center of high rises (heights limited by our downtown airport) than the others. People arguing they are wildly different much less discernibly so are patently wrong.
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Correct. This is the same data I used, except I did a contiguous cluster of 10,000+ppsm
Except I coroborrated that with an actual zip code density data and both cities have clusters in the 10,000+ppsm that are about the same size, so spare me this gibberish about some unfair north-south axis.
Furthermore, forward your grievances to walk score, and lastly, no one here is beholden to you or your chastening so you can run along with that.
Yea, you're obviously not beholden to it. I just wanted to point out the obvious holes in your argument and that there are other ways to use walkscore, since there is a level of granularity there that you're ignoring, which would be more apples to apples. You just don't do it, that's all.
Mind you, other methods of doing such with walkscore will still likely have a larger number of people living in more walkable neighborhoods for East Bay versus the SD Metropolitan area.
That would be splitting hairs. I haven't been there because there doesn't appear to be a reason to travel there.
Then why are you saying the two are "equivalents" if you know nothing about Danville? Klantee is a middle to lower middle income tract home suburb on small lots. Wealthy Danville is literally the opposite full of big custom homes on large lots. Hardly splitting hairs.
Downtown Oakland: ~1.55 sq miles, pop 18,732, 12,085/ppsm
Downtown San Diego: ~2.55 sq miles, pop 29,074, 11,402/ppsm
Downtown Portland: ~1.55 sq miles, pop 25,227, 16,275/ppsm
This was pulled from me doing my own legwork and mapping the areas commonly known as downtown; for Portland that would be everywhere inside the 405 loop; for Oakland that would be Lake Merritt to the east, 980 to the west, and south of Grand; and for San Diego that would be everywhere inside the 5 loop south of Laurel and north of Park/Commercial...
I've long stopped relying on most published accounts of downtown populations because they are hardly ever consistent and you get wild variances in numbers and what is considered downtown. There are tools out here that let you map cities yourself, so if you just simply Google what is commonly thought of as downtown in a given city you can map the population yourself...
What's interesting here is SD is obviously the physically larger city, so it has the physically larger downtown, but it and Oakland have the same residential density more or less. Portland is much more built residentially and seems to be getting shorted in the eyes of voters in this thread. How this all relates on the ground, I'm not positive, because I've only been to Downtown Oakland and not the others. Just looking at pictures, Oakland seems to have greater building density than SD but the population isn't there...
So all of these things have nuance. I'd suspect that SD maintains urbanity over a larger footprint than the others. As we know at some point the density drops off dramatically because the city overall isn't even ~4500/ppsm, however because SD is also much larger than even Oakland and Portland combined, it stands to reason it holds a degree of urbanity further out...
My overall impression is that the order of urbanity between the three isn't great and is roughly along the same plane. Portland's also has to drop off substantially at some point as it is a relatively low density city overall...picking a winner here is likely coming down to preference, but you can definitely make the argument that SD is the winner overall based off of how much larger its core likely is...
Well, I'd say the I-405 loop is not the correct boundary for Portland's urban core. That excludes Nob Hill and several other urban areas south of there. I think you could say everything east of 24th to the River is Portland's Downtown/Urban Core. And I would argue that under many standard criteria for urbanity, it is the most urban core of the three. Although if we are to look at the city overall and the metro overall, that goes to Oakland.
I will say, though, that Portland's non-core inner neighborhoods are more urban in some regards than their density would suggest. Just beyond the gentrifying, trendy bar/restaurant industrial area east of the river, there are a lot of long, walkable commercial corridors in the Southeast and Northeast quadrants that are surrounded primarily by single family home neighborhoods. These areas aren't particularly dense and feel fairly suburban in some regards, but the walkable, pedestrian-oriented commercial corridors and corner businesses throughout these areas give them a more urban vibe than you'd expect.
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