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DC deserves to be "discussed" in the thread at least, because it has the third largest contiguous downtown from end to end and in 4 directions in the US. It's larger than Philly, Boston, and SF in it's downtown, and the urban core expands for miles upon miles in multiple directions outside of downtown. Vancouver's true high density urban core would fit inside of Downtown DC. The top 7 is just an arbitrary number chosen by the OP, it could be 7 or 10. In order to find the top 7 you need to determine the top 10 and wind it down.
Like I said the high rise areas people have posted on Vancouver are Miami like in appearance, but there is more density and a bigger downtown in Vancouver it seems. I recognize that Vancouver has a better street wall than Miami-Brickell, but the ground level is nothing like the cities of the NE corridor.
Would LA then be better at that metric than DC since its downtown urban core stretches along multiple corridors in Central LA and the Westside? I think MDAllStar were also originally talking about having a specific set landsize in order to try to make it more apples-to-apples, so making it the "size" of downtown is kind of a new one to me. What are we using to figure out the size of urban core? Like, contiguous tracts of a certain density?
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Would LA then be better at that metric than DC since its downtown urban core stretches along multiple corridors in Central LA and the Westside? I think MDAllStar were also originally talking about having a specific set landsize in order to try to make it more apples-to-apples, so making it the "size" of downtown is kind of a new one to me. What are we using to figure out the size of urban core? Like, contiguous tracts of a certain density?
The point is about consistency with no drop off, and a seamless blend into the urban core that is not a part of downtown with little drop off. LA has 40+ story buildings in DTLA, with less of a consistent street wall that has interruptions in it. Not to mention it drops off to one story buildings just a mile out.
This is actually about an equal distance to downtown (actually probably further) from this location in DC. This isn't even downtown anymore, but this level of building height runs uninterrupted all the way to the White house going down 16th street:
Great list overall but I don’t think Baltimore belongs at #10. Guadalajara is far more urban. You could even make a case for Quebec City or Seattle being above Baltimore. I have t been to Monterrey or Havana but it’s hard to imagine they are less urban than Baltimore either.
Oh shoot. Forgot about Seattle. Yes, Seattle is definitely above Baltimore. Like I said, though, idk enough about Guadalajara to place it on my list. And I forgot about Quebec also, but similarly would not know where to place it and I don't want to just throw up a list without actual knowledge.
But the result at street level is a feeling of density, vibrancy and bustle that is second only to San Francisco among all US or Canadian cities west of the Mississippi. Yes the towers are skinny and there is some space between them but from a pedestrian perspective there is a constant wall of street-level retail, restaurants, bars, etc. And the sidewalks from Coal Harbour to Granville Street to Yaletown to Gastown to the West End to Broadway are bursting with people.
This. Exactly. The street walls are cool, but the Vancouver style of urban planning creates one of the most urban feelings on the street anyone could ever ask for, regardless of street walls or not. Instead of short mixed-use with retail ground floor and some apartment levels directly above, Vancouver goes for walls of retail at 1-2 stories with tower podiums above. It provides at least the same density, if not higher density. But it just looks more airy and open in the sky. Not on the ground, though. The streets of Vancouver are full of pedestrian life.
And then Yaletown and Gastown are the East Coast style urbanism people look for in older, historic cities.
How is zero lot development with no breaks creating a streetwall ugly? NYC creates the same streetwall. What do you mean? Why is that a bad thing?
That's a slight improvement over what you posted originally, but I think it's ugly because you have mainly modern buildings (1970s to now) all at the same height, with flat roofs, all meeting the street at the same way. There is zero variation in height or how the buildings interact with the street. It's like some dystopian office park maze.
I don't see how you can say it's beautiful.
NYC has varying heights and largely heritage buildings.
The point is about consistency with no drop off, and a seamless blend into the urban core that is not a part of downtown with little drop off. LA has 40+ story buildings in DTLA, with less of a consistent street wall that has interruptions in it. Not to mention it drops off to one story buildings just a mile out.
This is actually about an equal distance to downtown (actually probably further) from this location in DC. This isn't even downtown anymore, but this level of building height runs uninterrupted all the way to the White house going down 16th street:
Yea, but LA also has high-rises several miles out in Hollywood and the Westside and it's continuously dense even if there are some gaps here and there. Here's 3 miles out from the start of Wilshire Boulevard in downtown:
I don't think LA is a particularly good candidate for being in the top 7 most urban centers for North America. It runs into similar issues that DC or Vancouver do in that you really have to start creating some pretty specific parameters that are difficult to agree on.
That's a slight improvement over what you posted originally, but I think it's ugly because you have mainly modern buildings (1970s to now) all at the same height, with flat roofs, all meeting the street at the same way. There is zero variation in height or how the buildings interact with the street. It's like some dystopian office park maze.
I don't see how you can say it's beautiful.
NYC has varying heights and largely heritage buildings.
Well, the buildings are of different styles, but still with the same height so it sort of has an interesting look to it. I agree it's not for everyone, but I don't find it ugly. I also don't see it being much of a maze since the streets are laid out in a pretty specific pattern once you get used to it.
Besides, a couple of blocks down and you get this:
so there's generally quite a bit of things here and there, often fairly handsome historic buildings or little parks, that break up the streetwall here and there. It's pretty fun to walk, especially if you're not working there.
If we're including all of North America.. then we can count out Seattle. It wouldn't even crack the top 10.
1-Manhattan
2-Mexico City
3-Chicago
4-Toronto
5-San Francisco
6-Boston
7-Montreal
This is a pretty accurate list. Some may move one or two ranks higher or lower depending on which specific neighborhoods you are talking about, but overall, this covers NA pretty well.
If we are to include top 10, then I'd also add the following, in no particular order:
8. Philedelphia
9. Vancouver
10. Miami
Also, for a mid-sized city, Quebec City does reasonably well with its downtown/old-town areas that offer some pretty distinct old world urbanity.
Well, the buildings are of different styles, but still with the same height so it sort of has an interesting look to it. I agree it's not for everyone, but I don't find it ugly. I also don't see it being much of a maze since the streets are laid out in a pretty specific pattern once you get used to it.
Besides, a couple of blocks down and you get this:
so there's generally quite a bit of things here and there, often fairly handsome historic buildings or little parks, that break up the streetwall here and there. It's pretty fun to walk, especially if you're not working there.
I think it's clear in DC due to height restrictions all developers want to maximize the space and height on their lots and that's why you get that style. It's not done for aesthetic reasons or because it's better planning or better for the street level experience.
Anyways I think we can wrap up the discussion on Vancouver vs. DC.
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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I get a different vibe...Vancouver is “pretty”, newer and outdoorsy but does not resemble East Coast style at all to me...has more of a West Coast sterile element to it; I much prefer the urban, grittier vibe of Montreal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431
This. Exactly. The street walls are cool, but the Vancouver style of urban planning creates one of the most urban feelings on the street anyone could ever ask for, regardless of street walls or not. Instead of short mixed-use with retail ground floor and some apartment levels directly above, Vancouver goes for walls of retail at 1-2 stories with tower podiums above. It provides at least the same density, if not higher density. But it just looks more airy and open in the sky. Not on the ground, though. The streets of Vancouver are full of pedestrian life.
And then Yaletown and Gastown are the East Coast style urbanism people look for in older, historic cities.
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