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You realize that the only city in US and Canada outside of NYC to have tracts over 100k ppsm is San Francisco. SF has 6 tracts over 100k ppsm and 4 neighborhoods greater than 57k ppsm. SF is 2nd to 4th in North America in my opinion along with Mexico city and Chicago
You realize that the only city in US and Canada outside of NYC to have tracts over 100k ppsm is San Francisco. SF has 6 tracts over 100k ppsm and 4 neighborhoods greater than 57k ppsm. SF is 2nd to 4th in North America in my opinion along with Mexico city and Chicago
Chicago actually has 2 tracts over 100K ppsm, although 1 of them is just one building with a density over 700K ppsm so it shouldn't really count. The other tract is a little over 100K ppsm for the last few ACS. Note that the link I gave here has old data - the data I'm pulling is from 2018 ACS. It has grown over 10K ppsm between 2010 and 2018.
Downtown + north side of Chicago along the lakefront up to the north of the city and a bit west mostly bounded by the expressway is almost identical in physical area to SF by the way but with about 200K more people than SF. San Francisco does have its place up there from a density perspective for sure, and I'd be interested to know about the 22 sq mi part. At around 40 sq mi, Chicago maintains its density on the north side better than SF statistically.
1. NYC
2. Mexico City
3. Chicago
4. Toronto
5. Montreal
6. Boston
7. Philadelphia
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu
Chicago actually has 2 tracts over 100K ppsm, although 1 of them is just one building with a density over 700K ppsm so it shouldn't really count. The other tract is a little over 100K ppsm for the last few ACS. Note that the link I gave here has old data - the data I'm pulling is from 2018 ACS. It has grown over 10K ppsm between 2010 and 2018.
Downtown + north side of Chicago along the lakefront up to the north of the city and a bit west mostly bounded by the expressway is almost identical in physical area to SF by the way but with about 200K more people than SF. San Francisco does have its place up there from a density perspective for sure, and I'd be interested to know about the 22 sq mi part. At around 40 sq mi, Chicago maintains its density on the north side better than SF statistically.
Last time I checked Chicago had one highrise tract of 100k ppsm but that's cool it has 2. Its peak density doesnt match SF. And also dont forget that almost 20 pct of SF land area is 2 enormous parks (one being almost 3x bigger than central park) and other parks and areas that are too steep to develop on. With weighted density SF is 2nd to no one not named NYC in a size of equal land area
You realize that the only city in US and Canada outside of NYC to have tracts over 100k ppsm is San Francisco. SF has 6 tracts over 100k ppsm and 4 neighborhoods greater than 57k ppsm. SF is 2nd to 4th in North America in my opinion along with Mexico city and Chicago
Where are you finding the numbers for Canadian cities? I believe their tracts are measure in hectares, making them hard to compare.
Last time I checked Chicago had one highrise tract of 100k ppsm but that's cool it has 2. Its peak density doesnt match SF. And also dont forget that almost 20 pct of SF land area is 2 enormous parks (one being almost 3x bigger than central park) and other parks and areas that are too steep to develop on. With weighted density SF is 2nd to no one not named NYC in a size of equal land area
Well, if you're looking at the north side and downtown area of Chicago, it's also a lot of greenspace. Lincoln Park is substantially larger than Golden Gate Park and the greenspace that's Grant Park, Northerly Island and Burnham Park in the Loop and Near South Side are about as big. There are also a lot of smaller parks and some very large cemeteries though perhaps cemeteries shouldn't count.
Which park in San Francisco are you thinking that's 3x bigger than Central Park? Not the Presidio, right?
Last time I checked Chicago had one highrise tract of 100k ppsm but that's cool it has 2. Its peak density doesnt match SF. And also dont forget that almost 20 pct of SF land area is 2 enormous parks (one being almost 3x bigger than central park) and other parks and areas that are too steep to develop on. With weighted density SF is 2nd to no one not named NYC in a size of equal land area
Well I agree that SF has a few very large parks, but you are probably not as familiar with Chicago in this respect because Chicago has a park that is 50% larger than Central Park and also over 200 acres larger than Golden Gate Park. Obviously there's also Presidio, but does that matter?
Presidio: 1480 acres
Lincoln Park, Chicago: 1208 acres
Golden Gate Park, SF: 1017 acres
Central Park, NYC: 840 acres
Grant Park+Millennium Park+Maggie Daley Park, Chicago: 363.5 acres
John McLaren Park, SF: 312.5 acres
Humboldt Park, Chicago: 207 acres
Museum Campus + Northerly Island: 138 acres (subtracting Adler Planetarium from Northerly Island total)
Graceland Cemetery, Chicago: 119 acres
Navy Pier,+Jardine Water Filtration Plant (on the lake but counted in the tracts), Chicago: 101 acres
Mount Sutro Open Space Reserve, SF: 61 acres
Correct me if I'm wrong too but I believe the piers in SF together are ~500 acres?
San Francisco is 46.89 square miles of land, so subtracting the above areas along with 500 acres of piers, you would get 41.62 square miles with 883,305 people, or a density of 21,223.7 ppsm.
The following neighborhoods for Chicago form a continuous geographic area starting from Chinatown (Armour Square) just south of downtown and extending all the way north along the lake and neighborhoods adjacent to I-90:
Near North Side, Loop, Lake View, Lincoln Park, Uptown, Edgewater, Rogers Park, Near South Side, West Ridge, Lincoln Square, North Center, Albany Park, Irving Park, North Park, West Town, Avondale, Logan Square, Armour Square
The total area for this continuous area subtracting the land above is 41.71 square miles which is almost identical to the area of SF. The total population in 2018 of these areas is 977,243 people which is nearly 100,000 people more than SF for the same land area even when you subtract large park from both such as Presidio, Lincoln Park, and Golden Gate Park.
- Density of this area in Chicago subtracting the green space areas above: 23,429.5 ppsm
- Density of this area in San Francisco subtracting the green space areas above: 21,223.7 ppsm
In fact, even if you don't count Logan Square in this calculation just south of downtown for Chicago and you don't subtract ANY of the land above, you'd get an area of 41.47 square miles with a population of 903,554 which is still more than SF minus the large parks for them in almost 1 square mile less. If you did subtract those green space areas (none exist in Logan Square) which would be 38.4 sq miles, then the density would be 23,528 ppsm - that's 4 sq miles smaller than SF but with 20,000 more people.
Point being - Chicago and San Francisco are a hell of a lot closer in terms of density when you extend to around 40-45 square miles than people realize even after subtracting for large parks and such for both.
Last edited by marothisu; 04-01-2020 at 02:28 PM..
Well I agree that SF has a few very large parks, but you are probably not as familiar with Chicago in this respect because Chicago has a park that is 50% larger than Central Park and also over 200 acres larger than Golden Gate Park. Obviously there's also Presidio, but does that matter?
Presidio: 1480 acres
Lincoln Park, Chicago: 1208 acres
Golden Gate Park, SF: 1017 acres
Central Park, NYC: 840 acres
Grant Park+Millennium Park+Maggie Daley Park, Chicago: 363.5 acres
John McLaren Park, SF: 312.5 acres
Museum Campus + Northerly Island: 138 acres (subtracting Adler Planetarium from Northerly Island total)
Graceland Cemetery, Chicago: 119 acres
Navy Pier,+Jardine Water Filtration Plant (on the lake but counted in the tracts), Chicago: 101 acres
Mount Sutro Open Space Reserve, SF: 61 acres
San Francisco is 46.89 square miles of land, so subtracting the above areas you would get 42.4 square miles with 883,305 people, or a density of 20,832.7 ppsm.
The following neighborhoods for Chicago form a continuous geographic area starting from Chinatown just south of downtown and extending all the way north along the lake and neighborhoods adjacent to I-90:
Near North Side, Loop, Lake View, Lincoln Park, Uptown, Edgewater, Rogers Park, Near South Side, West Ridge, Lincoln Square, North Center, Albany Park, Irving Park, North Park, West Town, Avondale, Logan Square, Armour Square
The total area for this continuous area subtracting the land above is 42.04 square miles which is almost identical to the area of SF (but a little lower). The total population in 2018 of these areas is 977,243 people which is nearly 100,000 people more than SF for the same land area even when you subtract large park from both such as Presidio, Lincoln Park, and Golden Gate Park.
- Density of this area in Chicago subtracting the green space areas above: 23,245 ppsm
- Density of this area in San Francisco subtracting the green space areas above: 20,832.7 ppsm
In fact, even if you don't count Logan Square in this calculation for Chicago and you don't subtract ANY of the land above, you'd get an area of 41.47 square miles with a population of 903,554 which is still more than SF minus the large parks for them in almost 1 square mile less. If you did subtract those green space areas (none exist in Logan Square), then the density would be 23,528 ppsm.
Also important to note that a sizable chunk of the Presidio is residential and other non-public use.
Also important to note that a sizable chunk of the Presidio is residential and other non-public use.
I modified my post to add Humboldt Park in Chicago (207 acres - technically in West Town) and all the piers in SF (500 acres). Presidio has a population of 800 people so it's not a big deal in this. Even if you add 50,000 people to San Francisco, that area of Chicago still has more people and is denser. But the density isn't hugely different - it's 2200 ppsm greater in Chicago which is something but not night and day.
You realize that the only city in US and Canada outside of NYC to have tracts over 100k ppsm is San Francisco. SF has 6 tracts over 100k ppsm and 4 neighborhoods greater than 57k ppsm. SF is 2nd to 4th in North America in my opinion along with Mexico city and Chicago
Ah. Forgot to get back to you on that other thread about this. Boston’s highest tract is 97k or 98k, I believe. Close enough.
I modified my post to add Humboldt Park in Chicago (207 acres - technically in West Town) and all the piers in SF (500 acres). Presidio has a population of 800 people so it's not a big deal in this. Even if you add 50,000 people to San Francisco, that area of Chicago still has more people and is denser. But the density isn't hugely different - it's 2200 ppsm greater in Chicago which is something but not night and day.
Presidio doesn't have much in sheer number of residents--it's just that a chunk of that massive acreage it has is actually housing that's not very densely built or are offices. It really stood out to me the first time I visited and biked around, because for some reason I thought it was all parkland and if there were structures, they would have been public structures of sorts.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 04-01-2020 at 06:48 PM..
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