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If you do that you'd (quite legitimately) add about 75,000 people to Montreal's total, and even close to 100,000 if you add Ville Mont-Royal.
The exercise was to create about ~22-23 square miles of what is probably the most urban and dense portions of the city using existing divisions since the stats are usually easier to get and check and those divisions often have some basis for their groupings. Another poster made a different grouping than what I initially made for Chicago and explained the rationale for it--by all means, I think it'd be great if you also made an alternative grouping for ~22-23 square miles of Montreal and the numbers and rationale for that, and I'll include it in an update!
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 04-06-2020 at 11:17 AM..
The exercise was to create about ~22-23 square miles of what is probably the most urban and dense portions of the city using existing divisions since the stats are usually easier to get and check and those divisions often have some basis for their groupings. Another poster made a different grouping that what I initially made for Chicago and explained the rationale for it--by all means, I think it'd be great if you also made an alternative grouping for ~22-23 square miles of Montreal and the numbers and rationale for that, and I'll include it in an update!
Ooh, maybe I shouldn't have opened my mouth! I'll try if I can and have time!
The vast majority of the low-rise housing adjacent to the skyscraper core in Toronto is made up of attached housing, either rowhouses or tightly packed semi-detached homes. Some of these residential streets have small front lawns while others are built right up to the sidewalk. Those neighbourhoods are very dense as well (30-40,000 ppsm) since most of the attached homes in the inner core are split into two or three units.
I feel that I have to point out that Toronto is not an American city, its development patterns have a very strong British influence in the sections of the city that developed in the later 19th and early 20th century, so what seems surprising to an American in regards to such a big city having cozy, tree-lined rowhouse streets within walking distance of the skyscrapers of the financial district just comes down to the fact that we do things differently in Canada in regards to city building than what has been done in most big U.S. urban centres. Montreal's plex neighbourhoods have a different built form than Toronto's rowhouse neighbourhods, but they have similar densities and are both a quick walk to the heart of the city.
Toronto also didn't follow the trend of many American cities of ripping up its core neighbourhoods and putting in a ring of freeways around the downtown core so most of the oldest neighbourhoods ringing the core from when Toronto was a much smaller city remained intact and later became fashionable and very much sought after and are now ridiculously expensive. Toronto hit around 1 million people by WW2, and almost all of those older neigbourhoods are still intact, and that pre-war core contains a bigger population now than it did then due to urban infill in the form of hi-rise and mid-rise residential development.
Nice, can you post a link that has the neighborhoods with their land areas and populations?
Honestly no lmao. It was a piecemeal collection because I was bored and couldn't sleep. Took the time collecting data from Wiki, Niche.com, and a few other sources I can't even remember today now lol. Plus some measuring distances/areas on Google Maps based on neighborhood boundaries. But knowing those numbers I found on places like Niche.com are likely also 2010 numbers like Wiki, the density I came up with does pretty much make sense. The only ones not definitely 2010 are CC (2018) and UC (2014).
I know it's not perfect or official, but it's seemingly the only way we can add in Philly and this list wouldn't be complete without it.
Toronto in the 1960s became a new larger city in a day in its title Amalgamation. A few cities blended into one new one. Israel became a new Nation in a day and NYC once just Manhattan. Decades before merged with its current group of once separate municipalities. It merely is history.
There was plenty of land to fill and forest ringing it still. Powers zoned for what would evolve it to a highly highrise living city. No American city steered its growth upward likr Toronto. Those that attained most as NYC snd Chicago. Did it organically. Miami today added much too. But still desire for a ocean-view steered it.
Once Toronto became Canada's premier city over Montreal that was greatly held back by the Separtist Movement and French push. Toronto's massive growth became fed by a huhe international professionals immigration policy that lead to nearly 60% immigrants today it has.
Being in Canada. No big African-American migration occured and following White-Flight thst lead US cities into declines. Toronto. Even the huge manufacturing looses it never had to face. Also the US enduring massive illegal immigration from its Southern borders. Toronto's Movement to a new profesional based economy was smoother given far less declines and US city issues. There is no Sunbelt to steer Toronto businesses to migrate to or its population as the Northern US cities endure still. Migrations South mean to the US.
As I expected. Those claiming Toronto is second to NYC today for this thread. Was seen as in past threads T.O. was vs a American city. Its core is boasted second largest too (by the same poster). Toronto's Core including some original neighborhoods as row-housing included as its downtown CBD today. Some seem to wish to lessen their stetch of single-homes after that. Not sure why? It still is in N.A and not Asia. Where single homes were desired too. But still Asian type growth aspects in claims to multiple CBD's too. But one main Core of course promoted as most urban after NYC.
Maybe a thread on what N.A city today is the # 2 urban and # 2 urban-core on this Continent today? Is the next new thread to create??
Even not in Toronto living. But post it as a matter of National found Pride it has today, that Toronto is a World rising star over the rest in N.A today.
This is basically the claim they make. Seeing it has less issues of its Southern Borders cities
Honestly no lmao. It was a piecemeal collection because I was bored and couldn't sleep. Took the time collecting data from Wiki, Niche.com, and a few other sources I can't even remember today now lol. Plus some measuring distances/areas on Google Maps based on neighborhood boundaries. But knowing those numbers I found on places like Niche.com are likely also 2010 numbers like Wiki, the density I came up with does pretty much make sense. The only ones not definitely 2010 are CC (2018) and UC (2014).
I know it's not perfect or official, but it's seemingly the only way we can add in Philly and this list wouldn't be complete without it.
Yea, it seems odd how difficult it is given the city supposedly having those planning districts and a website set up for data about the city. I'll take another look around. I agree that the list isn't complete without doing one for Philadelphia as well as for a few of the other missing ones like Santo Domingo, Toronto, San Francisco, Guadalajara, and Monterrey.
Wait maybe you're right. I can't find a consistent neighborhood delineation + population for Lower v. Upper North Philly.
Given that North Philadelphia extends from Vine Street all the way to the northern city limit at Cheltenham Avenue, you're going to cover a lot of territory with whatever demarcation you choose.
Generally speaking, in the popular view, North Philly gets split into three. Vine Street to Girard Avenue is now part of "Greater Center City" as described by the Center City District/Central Philadelphia Development Corporation, and the part that lies below Spring Garden Street is probably regarded as part of Center City proper by many.
The section from Girard to Erie avenues is the part that usually gets referred to as just "North Philly" rather than a specific neighborhood name (and this part, which the Planning Commission refers to as North Central Philadelphia, has several neighborhoods in it).
From Erie north to the city line, people speak of neighborhoods once again: Tioga, Nicetown, Hunting Park, Logan, Fern Rock, East and West Oak Lane.
I consider Erie Avenue the dividing line between lower and upper - but I think the tripartite division I just outlined is more common.
I get a Greater Center City Philadelphia is warranted today and understand reasons that push it a bit further then even the original claimed Greater CC. But how far are common rowhousing areas still part of a Greater Core here to more and more a Greater one?
Clearly it is time Philly broadened even a Center City boundary officially. But seems unlikely as not seen as any priority. But we need to be reasonable in our stretches for any city.
I might think a Chicago Greater core could push to say Northward to Wrigley Field? Including its densest neighborhoods. But I would feel I really pushed it too far gaining a backlash.
Many times you read Real Estate firms loving to expand into gentrified neighborhoods to broaden appeal. -- by saying "Downtown living" etc. for sure. Seen it for Chicago. Defining a downtown living streched from the Loop south including its Chinatown and U of Illinios campus once called Little Italy. More into the West Loop, North and Northeast neighborhoods. I've seen a link giving population stats too for included neighborhoods they feel fit to claim as again -- "still a Urban downtown living region. Sounds great to investers renting or selling.
But at least Chicago city defines its official CBD that some could say a bit dated and could stretch more already. But its given boundaries works for me since I read of it.
Sadly, with all the stretching of CBD's on CD more and more and even Toronto posters claiming a largest CBD after NYC like 6-7 sq/mi area. It is hard to stick to a city-link boundaries. Makes Chicago's official CBD stats seem tiny at below 4 sq/miles.
So many add more gentrified areas professionsls commute to its heart and beyond it seems. Wishing to push theirs further to hype populations and Greater Core living boundaries. Gets rediculous to even reasonably debate or discuss it.
"Official" CBD boundaries again...do you think cities consider that a function?
They define districts for planning and administration purposes. That's it.
If you think a neighborhood should be defined more broadly, your opinion is valid for your purposes, just like theirs is for their puroposes.
Here's an example. Let's say Uptown (any of the dozens of Uptowns) is 500 acres by your definition. But 100 acres nearby don't really belong to any major district. The City has to assign it to a district for neighborhood planning, so they add it to Uptown. That says nothing about whether it's part of the neighborhood from anyone else's perspective.
This is about how cities actually operate, not the ideas that come up on CD.
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