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Indeed, CT commuter rail like Hartford Line or Shore Line East is not designed to work for night life. I now
mainly commute on SLE and Transfer at New Haven to Stamford for jobs (before pandemic) and will continue to do so after re-opening. But whenever company had event at night for bars in Stamford, I plan to drive to West Haven instead to avoid the trap on SLE. SLE is only only good for rush hours peak trains, very sparse other times, none after 10pm-11pm. The real line that allows night life is MNR new haven between NYC/Stamford/New Haven. This is not electrification issue, it is just lack of ridership. ridership does not support late trains like that.
I think SLE is already doing special event trains like New London Sailfest. Hartford Line not sure, I think CTDOT should be open to special event trains for events in New Haven/Hartford/Springfield. Beyond that, hard to do due to lack of ridership.
New London is up coming on population due to defense jobs growth in Groton. But still, New London is really not a true city yet, just bigger town. Population is its biggest issue for public transportation growth.
I'm not saying that there would definitely be the ridership to support such, but as you probably already know, putting in the resources to electrify tracks often results in two things:
1) usually lower operating and maintenance expenses when run at decent frequencies compared to standard ICE trains which means running additional trains for greater frequency or expanded timetables don't incur as much of a financial penalty per run
2) faster and smoother acceleration which means that you can either cram more trains on to the timetable for the same number of tracks and stations and trip time durations are shortened
I think what's especially odd about SLE is that the tracks are essentially already electrified since Amtrak runs electric operations on those tracks. In that sense, there's pretty minimal additional infrastructure, if any, that would additionally be needed for SLE to be running electrified operations. I'm wondering if SLE being electrified then would mean that the lower cost of running each train might entice CT to try running an additional later roundtrip and a timetable with slightly shorter trip durations would make it just that much more likely to bring in a few more riders to bump those ridership numbers. There is the argument that running more trains, especially if these were trains taking less time between stops, would induce more ridership.
Interesting about New London. Would you say that it's a decent daytrip (or an overnight)? I'm in NYC and I'm thinking this summer is going to be filled with daytrips and weekend trips, and I'm looking to do at least some of these by train.
I was also just looking at SLE routing--I'm curious as to if there was ever a proposal to have a less circuitous route between New Haven and Bradford.
I'm not saying that there would definitely be the ridership to support such, but as you probably already know, putting in the resources to electrify tracks often results in two things:
Interesting about New London. Would you say that it's a decent daytrip (or an overnight)? I'm in NYC and I'm thinking this summer is going to be filled with daytrips and weekend trips, and I'm looking to do at least some of these by train.
I was also just looking at SLE routing--I'm curious as to if there was ever a proposal to have a less circuitous route between New Haven and Bradford.
Yes, New London/Mystic are the No 1 tourist location in CT. Very popular for summer trips. New London now also offer Thames River park and boat ride in summer too. Yes, worth a day or two trip if you are from NYC.
There is shuttle and also uber from New London to Mystic that at decent low cost. check the CT re-opening schedule and you can plan a decent trip there for one day or two just for New London/Mystic.
There is Mohegan Sun gambling place nearby New London. But that may not re-open soon and probably not enough time beyond New London/Mystic for only one or two days.
By the way, SLE is not only option for Mystic/New London. Amtrak slow trains stop at both Mystic and New London stations too that can offer a ride to NYC Penn Station. Amtrak is bit more expensive than SLE + MNR, but faster with direct connection. Train access to this region is pretty good. Amtrak does not allow bikes, MNR/SLE allow bike, that is difference too.
I'm not saying that there would definitely be the ridership to support such, but as you probably already know, putting in the resources to electrify tracks often results in two things:
1) usually lower operating and maintenance expenses when run at decent frequencies compared to standard ICE trains which means running additional trains for greater frequency or expanded timetables don't incur as much of a financial penalty per run
2) faster and smoother acceleration which means that you can either cram more trains on to the timetable for the same number of tracks and stations and trip time durations are shortened
I think what's especially odd about SLE is that the tracks are essentially already electrified since Amtrak runs electric operations on those tracks. In that sense, there's pretty minimal additional infrastructure, if any, that would additionally be needed for SLE to be running electrified operations. I'm wondering if SLE being electrified then would mean that the lower cost of running each train might entice CT to try running an additional later roundtrip and a timetable with slightly shorter trip durations would make it just that much more likely to bring in a few more riders to bump those ridership numbers. There is the argument that running more trains, especially if these were trains taking less time between stops, would induce more ridership.
SLE quality is overrated by you. SLE probably never had that kind of easy electrification capability as you think, nor the population in southeast CT to support the ridership.
It is amazing that SLE started decades earlier than Hartford Line considering how small the population in southeast CT.
By the way, recently Hartford Line got a fed award of something like 50 million to support one extra roundtrip trains between New Haven/Springfield. Yes, Springfield has way more population than New London if you carefully check their numbers.
SLE quality is overrated by you. SLE probably never had that kind of easy electrification capability as you think, nor the population in southeast CT to support the ridership.
It is amazing that SLE started decades earlier than Hartford Line considering how small the population in southeast CT.
By the way, recently Hartford Line got a fed award of something like 50 million to support one extra roundtrip trains between New Haven/Springfield. Yes, Springfield has way more population than New London if you carefully check their numbers.
Oh, I don't think its quality is high--I just wish it was higher quality.
I'm actually confused on SLE electrification. Is there really a much greater bottleneck to electrification aside from purchasing compatible rolling stock and maybe electrical substation upgrades. I'm actually quite confused by it not being electrified since it seems like most of the infrastructure is already in place since Amtrak runs electrified rolling stock on those exact same tracks. I figured it had to be the budget for getting electrified rolling stock as the issue there, but maybe there's something far more dire that I'm missing
Glad to hear about the Hartford Line's extra roundtrip!
I never heard of that rail proposal, but I doubt it would have much demand. Most of the stops are sparsely populated, even rural, so bus works better. The general idea would be better if it connected to New Haven. Better service along the mostly existing line connecting New Haven and Burlington, VT would be nice. It would include many of those towns, or be a close bus connection. I don't know if rail service has been restored to downtown Burlington again yet. There was talk of doing so. The closest passenger station now is Essex Junction.
As for New London. I'd include it in a top ten list of Connecticut's most interesting cities, but not in a top 10 of southern New England. I like it, but MA and RI offer some good competition. But that's for another thread.
I agree that demand for Worcester/Providence or Brattleboro/New London type of passenger rail is not there. They won't be built.
The more interesting, and probably new england new rail is between Westerly/New London connecting SLE and MBTA in RI. This would be more interesting as westerly RI is close to Mystic/New London and infact, many local folks view Westerly RI and New London CT as one same region. Both RI and CT are supporting the link and if fed can provide some money, there might be some ridership demand there too considering the work from home type of new trends post-pandemic.
The real new rail is East West between Springfield and Worcester, which would have huge demand from both CT and MA linking NYC metro and Boston metro in all commuter rails. This would be game changer post-pandemic.
Interesting about New London. Would you say that it's a decent daytrip (or an overnight)? I'm in NYC and I'm thinking this summer is going to be filled with daytrips and weekend trips, and I'm looking to do at least some of these by train.
I think it’s a worthy day trip at least. But you’d want to check out Mystic, Westerly, and the Stonington Burrough also, so it may be better to go by car than by train. Norwich, CT is a bit like New London in that the city has a few empty storefronts and signs of a suffering economy, but also has some nice architecture and a few good restaurants, cafes, and such. I was able to time my visit there last summer (totally by chance) with an Italian Festival that was right along the river. I might suggest doing something like that where you visit the area during an event. The Mystic Food Festival or Sailfest in New London are other possibilities. I highly recommend Paul’s Pasta in Groton: I try to grab food there whenever I’m in the area.
I think it’s a worthy day trip at least. But you’d want to check out Mystic, Westerly, and the Stonington Burrough also, so it may be better to go by car than by train. Norwich, CT is a bit like New London in that the city has a few empty storefronts and signs of a suffering economy, but also has some nice architecture and a few good restaurants, cafes, and such. I was able to time my visit there last summer (totally by chance) with an Italian Festival that was right along the river. I might suggest doing something like that where you visit the area during an event. The Mystic Food Festival or Sailfest in New London are other possibilities. I highly recommend Paul’s Pasta in Groton: I try to grab food there whenever I’m in the area.
Car rentals are available in both New Haven union station or New London Union Station. Yes, car or train or bike, all possible.
I think it’s a worthy day trip at least. But you’d want to check out Mystic, Westerly, and the Stonington Burrough also, so it may be better to go by car than by train. Norwich, CT is a bit like New London in that the city has a few empty storefronts and signs of a suffering economy, but also has some nice architecture and a few good restaurants, cafes, and such. I was able to time my visit there last summer (totally by chance) with an Italian Festival that was right along the river. I might suggest doing something like that where you visit the area during an event. The Mystic Food Festival or Sailfest in New London are other possibilities. I highly recommend Paul’s Pasta in Groton: I try to grab food there whenever I’m in the area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jxzz
Car rentals are available in both New Haven union station or New London Union Station. Yes, car or train or bike, all possible.
Nice, thanks for the advice. I'd probably only do a car rental if I can pick up and drop-off near the train stations since driving in and out of NYC, or I-95 in general, is sometimes not a fantastically fun time. Bikes sound like a good idea!
I know this is a pretty specific question, but does CT or these cities in particular have rules against electric-assist bikes?
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