Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yet, you still have not provided any of your experiences in and around Phoenix and you continue to skirt around the issue. Living in ABQ years ago and simply driving to and from Phoenix doesn't make you an expert on the city, especially when there are always many different moving parts. I moved to Tucson from Austin and lived there for many years before moving to Phoenix and used to drive up here all the time, specifically to hang out on the weekends.
I think you're trying to shortchange Phoenix when it comes to nightlife. If may not be hip-hop focused like Atlanta, but it was different. Did you know that world renowned American-German DJ Markus Schulz was a resident DJ for many years at a club in Scottsdale beginning in the early 90's? Did you also know that Hot Mix Productions (Dave Rajput/Andrew Starr) - you know, the dance mix shows that started in the 80's and were broadcast across 175 radio stations around the world were produced here in "sleepy" Phoenix and aired on radio stations here long before Atlanta even had a hip-hop culture? Did you know that in the early 90's, trance DJ Swedish Egil (from MARS FM - later Groove Radio 103.1 in LA) had his first radio broadcast of Groove Radio International from a small radio station in Wickenburg? And that Chris Shebel, former program director at Energy 92.7 Chicago consulted on dance station Energy 92.7/101.1 in Phoenix, a station that outlived most terrestrial dance stations during the 2000's included original Energy 92.7 in Chicago? These things wouldn't have occurred if there wasn't a demand for it locally.
I can tell you little things like that, but I was in no way an expert on Phoenix as a whole, so I'm thinking neither were you.
I know I am not an expert on Phoenix so tell me what I said was so incorrect?
I was in the Air Force and lived at times on Luke AFB.Hence the reason I often was in Phoenix coming from Cannon AFB in Clovis NM.An officer friend of mind made the drive as he had family on Chandler and we would often hang out there.
So I have some experience which I gave. Apparentlty that wasnt enough as you didnt like what i said.
What does radio broadcast have to do with nightlife? And one club doesnt make a place have good nightlife.
Its beyond streptypical and insulting that you would bring up Hip Hop.
Im not even heavy in hip hop so I dont know why you would assume thats all I know or why a city of 5.7 million is mainly hip hop.
That is so ignorant and shows how much you need to leave AZ.
The last spot I went to before quarrantine was a place called Cafe Istanbul.
Its a Turkish spot with belly dancers food and Hookah opened till 2am.
There are all sorts of places like this that cater to a very diverse population.This is what true urbanism looks like, A cosmopolitan atnosphere where a range of options are available.Its not just night clubs and bars and one genre.
To be honest I dont know many "hip hop " spots in Atlanta.
Atlanta has a very diverse nightlife.If you are gay or gay friendly there are tons of options mostly in Midtown Atlanta.
Buckhead is hardly hip hop central but has tons of typical bars and clubs packed with people.Nothing in Phoenix compares
My scene is House Music and yes Atlanta has a big House music scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5KAdXpz50Y
In fact their is a a huge House Music festival called House in the Park that brings in over 10,000 people every Labor day weekend.
It coencides with the Afro Punk festival. Another genre that brings in a international array of music across the African diaspora. Its alternative music that is HUGE. Again,NOT HIP HOP!
Also one of my favorite and most popular clubs in Atlanta isnt hip hop.In fact none of them are.Loca Luna is a Latin club that has dj and live music many nights
Hey,Its okRelax.Dont be so angry
Miami boomed in the 1950s but its very urban and its not as old as Phoenix. He said its a common complaint,not that most people make the complaint.
You do realize that the Miami metro area had over twice the population of the Phoenix metro in 1940. Phoenix never had a significant downtown stock of buildings during the golden age of building compared to its peers today, nor a chance to rise to its potential in part due to deflation and building shortages that began around the time of the Great Depression and WW2. But it can't all be blamed on that. It had bones, but nothing on the scale of many other larger cities. Unfortunately, during post-war expansion and in part due to the automobile and the city sprawling out, the center of gravity shifted away from downtown as Phoenix grew hard and fast. There was more new construction in Phoenix in 1959 alone than from 1914 to 1946. Sadly, Phoenix allowed much of the older stock of buildings in the core, in addition to adjacent neighborhoods to fall into steep decline and disrepair, and many were razed back in the late 60's, 70's, 80's, and even the 90's. City hall was responsible for many terrible decisions and failed to put policies in place that would penalize large-scale demolitions and condemn land banking. Eventually, Phoenix learned its lesson. Now, Phoenix is truly focused on its core as new developments are literally replacing empty parcels or even blocks for the most part. It's not so much a resurgence as it is a rebirth.
You do realize that the Miami metro area had over twice the population of the Phoenix metro in 1940. Phoenix never had a significant downtown stock of buildings during the golden age of building compared to its peers today, nor a chance to rise to its potential in part due to deflation and building shortages that began around the time of the Great Depression and WW2. But it can't all be blamed on that. It had bones, but nothing on the scale of many other larger cities. Unfortunately, during post-war expansion and in part due to the automobile and the city sprawling out, the center of gravity shifted away from downtown as Phoenix grew hard and fast. There was more new construction in Phoenix in 1959 alone than from 1914 to 1946. Sadly, Phoenix allowed much of the older stock of buildings in the core, in addition to adjacent neighborhoods to fall into steep decline and disrepair, and many were razed back in the late 60's, 70's, 80's, and even the 90's. City hall was responsible for many terrible decisions and failed to put policies in place that would penalize large-scale demolitions and condemn land banking. Eventually, Phoenix learned its lesson. Now, Phoenix is truly focused on its core as new developments are literally replacing empty parcels or even blocks for the most part. It's not so much a resurgence as it is a rebirth.
Does everthinbg have to be so exact with you?Miami core as an urban city came long after most American cities its size.The difference is Miami is confined by batural barries like water so its grew more urban.
It seems you think by pointing out these differences im attacking Phoenix where as I am just simply pointing out that whatever the hows and whys,Phoenix has a long way to go to become more urban. Its irrelevant to make excuses but acknowledging its shortfalls will open the door for improvement just like the other cties in the list.
I can see why people like Phoenix.Its an easy relaxed pace of living with great weather.It has a great cost of living but as an urban idelic place,its very low on the list of most desireable cities.
That does not equate to ne saying it "undesireable". There are simply more desireable places
Phoenix isnt the only city focusing on its core.Every city on this list is doing this
I know I am not an expert on Phoenix so tell me what I said was so incorrect?
I was in the Air Force and lived at times on Luke AFB.Hence the reason I often was in Phoenix coming from Cannon AFB in Clovis NM.An officer friend of mind made the drive as he had family on Chandler and we would often hang out there.
So I have some experience which I gave. Apparentlty that wasnt enough as you didnt like what i said.
What does radio broadcast have to do with nightlife? And one club doesnt make a place have good nightlife.
Its beyond streptypical and insulting that you would bring up Hip Hop.
Im not even heavy in hip hop so I dont know why you would assume thats all I know or why a city of 5.7 million is mainly hip hop.
That is so ignorant and shows how much you need to leave AZ.
The last spot I went to before quarrantine was a place called Cafe Istanbul.
Its a Turkish spot with belly dancers food and Hookah opened till 2am.
There are all sorts of places like this that cater to a very diverse population.This is what true urbanism looks like, A cosmopolitan atnosphere where a range of options are available.Its not just night clubs and bars and one genre.
To be honest I dont know many "hip hop " spots in Atlanta.
Atlanta has a very diverse nightlife.If you are gay or gay friendly there are tons of options mostly in Midtown Atlanta.
Buckhead is hardly hip hop central but has tons of typical bars and clubs packed with people.Nothing in Phoenix compares
My scene is House Music and yes Atlanta has a big House music scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5KAdXpz50Y
In fact their is a a huge House Music festival called House in the Park that brings in over 10,000 people every Labor day weekend.
It coencides with the Afro Punk festival. Another genre that brings in a international array of music across the African diaspora. Its alternative music that is HUGE. Again,NOT HIP HOP!
Also one of my favorite and most popular clubs in Atlanta isnt hip hop.In fact none of them are.Loca Luna is a Latin club that has dj and live music many nights
There are so many places you can eat late at night as well in Atlanta.Its just a lively city at night.It definately ranks in the top 10 in America
Good lord...
I'm pretty sure I don't "need to leave Phoenix" to see the world. I've seen the world. I've traveled in the military like you, and I've traveled the world for leisure. I never made any assumptions about you except that you perhaps don't know Phoenix more than the people who actually live there and that you rely on polls. Furthermore, you have the audacity to call me ignorant and make yourself out to be a victim of stereotyping simply because I referenced Atlanta's hip hop culture which had absolutely nothing to do with you, but with Atlanta which it is known for. Then you insult me with your cute little comment. I'm pretty much done with this conversation.
I dont think the folks in Phoenix have anything to worry about. Phoenix is unique compared to Dallas and Atlanta. I wouldn't knock it. I rarely hear anyone who regrets living in the Valley Of The Sun. It offers something that neither Dallas nor Atlanta can offer. The warm sunshine really does feel good during the non-summer months. There is no humidity and the Phoenix area is very clean, bright, sunny and has Palm Tree lined streets. I argue that it is has a better physical environment by far than either Dallas or Atlanta. Phoenix is a much better place to sit outside on the patio of the restaurants, relax and have a beer under the misters with a friend or going golfing. BTW, the attire in Phoenix is Khaki shorts, sandals, sunglasses and a SW themed shirt or a tee shirt. I think Phoenix is a little less stressful too and the people are less uptight. I believe that there is less drama in Phoenix which means less stress. I argue that Phoenix has less of a red neck element. It has a lot of influence and vibe from California.
Sure it's different. It doesnt fit the mold if you want it to be Atlanta or Dallas. I also dont think that they are worried about that very much. Places like Dallas and Atlanta I think they have more pressure to prove themselves. If you want an urban environment then why not just move to NYC or Chicago or San Fran, LA or even Philly and DC? Why live in Atlanta? Its 100 years behind those places. If you want mountains go to Seattle or Denver. Atlanta has plenty of competition nearby like Charlotte and Nashville or even Raleigh. It's a run of the mill place. Dallas too. I think that's why they have more to prove. They are not very unique nor is there anything unique about the physical environments. Sure make Hip Hop and R&B music. Knock yourself out. Meanwhile they'll be listening to it while drinking a beer under the misters.
I'm pretty sure I don't "need to leave Phoenix" to see the world. I've seen the world. I've traveled in the military like you, and I've traveled the world for leisure. I never made any assumptions about you except that you perhaps don't know Phoenix more than the people who actually live there and that you rely on polls. Furthermore, you have the audacity to call me ignorant and make yourself out to be a victim of stereotyping simply because I referenced Atlanta's hip hop culture which had absolutely nothing to do with you, but with Atlanta which it is known for. Then you insult me with your cute little comment. I'm pretty much done with this conversation.
Wasnt it you who first said to me my post screams "ive never left the South"?
Why would you make an assumption about what i know about Phoenix unless I said something inaccurate whcih you havent said I havent other than you didnt like what I said.
Im never a victim.Especially to anyone on CD but New York is always been known for Hip Hop like Atlanta but like NYC Atlanta isnt just hip hop.Especially when it comes to nightlife of which was the topic YOU commented on.
You are obvioulsy ignorant because YOU made the statement in regards to night life.
Poeple are always surprised how much Nashville night life isnt ruled by country music and thats ignorance as well.
Dont get mad at me because you should have known better
I responded to a poster that made some statements that were biased, When you say "we are better in entertainment because we have Spring training".Thats biased and a week argument.
Why is it weak? It draws 100,000's of people to the metro every single year, it's a larger economic impact than the super bowl and it repeats year after year... Baseball is a big part of Arizona history, we host not just spring training but also fall and winter league as well. If you like the sport it's a unique opportunity to see up and comers along with pros who are recovering from injuries and surgeries. I find it great. But it's far from the only thing to do here.
I brought up transit and walkabiiity as something that explains why cost of living is more. You will pay for the most urban experience in every city. A city that has more urban attributes will be more expensive.
Some people like different things, one of the most expensive cities in the country is Beverly Hills, which has almost zero public transit and is far from being urban. Some people enjoy having a little space... nothing wrong with that. Here in Phoenix the most expensive parts of the city are near open space in places like North Scottsdale and then Paradise Valley, home to large estates kind of like parts of Buckhead.
South Mountain Park is a natural park.Piedmont PArk is a true urban park. If i wanted hiking cloeseby then Id go to Arabia,Kennesaw,Panola or Stone Mountain parks withing 25 minutes of downtown Atlanta.
Stone Mountain does look pretty cool, I'd add it to my list next time I'm in the area. But just to add a little perspective, and this is one of the most unique things about Phoenix, South Mountain Park is 16,000 acres, which itself is more than all 4 of those combined. The Phoenix Mountain Preserve in North Phoenix is another 7,000 acres of open land full of trails to explore. Stone Mountain (3,200 acres), Arabia (4,000 acres), Kennesaw (2,923 acres) and Panola (1,300 acres).
I wouldnt compare it to Piedmont just like I wouldnt compare it to Central Park in NYC.They are apple and oranges. Day to day the best cities have good access to good parks and Piedmont is more in line with what a true urban park is.
Of course, do you think Phoenix doesn't have developed parks too? Every city has these but the preserves are one of the unique aspects of Phoenix that most older cities just don't have, it's a benefit of being a newer city where early leaders saw the benefit of preserving open space for residents to enjoy.
Encanto Park is similar to Piedmont, which still has the operational Enchanted Island mini amusement park. It is about the same size as Piedmont and offers golf, swimming, amusement rides, boating etc.. There's also Hance Park, Papago Park, the green belt running from Tempe to Scottsdale and a very popular one locally called Tempe Beach Park, on town lake.
Of course the West has history. I loved driving from South New Mexico to ABQ and seeing where Billy the Kid supposedly was burried and Native American ruins coming in from Tuscon.
The Mississippian Native Americans are said to date back over 10,000 years and they have left nehind mounds just North nad South of Atlanta along the banks of the Occumulgee and Etowah Rivers.
The Cherokee Nation hails from teh Atlanta and North Georigia areas before the were forceably removed the the US government .
Anglo history?LOL Well its all American history regardless of what region.Im African AMerican and the formation of this country would have never happened if Native Americans and those of African descent were not made casualties of a prosperpus nation and the East Coast and Atlanta region in particular has a plethora of history of many cultures.
Phoenix has had trememdous growth mainly due to its warm climate just like Miami but its simply hasnt grown as an urban city.Its gettting ore urban day by day but these days every city is doing this. Some like Atlanta are further along than Phoenix and some like Seattle are further along than Atlanta.
This makes no sense, if it was just about warm weather then why isn't Tucson blowing up? Tucson is just as warm and sees a tiny fraction of the growth of Phoenix despite being a much older city. Even going back to Phoenix's initial settlements people were here for farming in the fertile Salt River Valley. Then came the military during the WWII followed by lots of settlers during the baby boom, people starting families and careers.
Georgia State is Downtown. If you notice in the walkscore list of neigbohoods of each city,there are more than 10 neighborhoods with scores over 80 in Atlanta. There are none in Phoenix.
Arizona State is in downtown Tempe, which directly sits next to Phoenix and has a walk score over 80. It's a great option for someone seeking an urban lifestyle and is connected to downtown Phoenix via train plus is adding a street car now. The fact that an urban setting in metro Phoenix is available is the point, downtown Phoenix is catching up quick as well, there's about 10 cranes up there now adding all kinds of stuff.
Umm,ok...You win but not sure what that has to do woth urbanity
Last I checked this isn't an urbanity comparison. Phoenix has urban settings, they're slightly less urban than Atlanta but nobody is moving to either place for their major urbanity offerings... If you want to live in downtown Phoenix, Tempe or Scottsdale and walk to groceries, restaurants, and entertainment you certainly can. I'm sure the same can be done in Atlanta.
.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Living in ABQ years ago and simply driving to and from Phoenix doesn't make you an expert on the city, especially when there are always many different moving parts. I moved to Tucson from Austin and lived there for many years before moving to Phoenix and used to drive up here all the time, specifically to hang out on the weekends. 
Phoenix
