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I dont think the folks in Phoenix have anything to worry about. Phoenix is unique compared to Dallas and Atlanta. I wouldn't knock it. I rarely hear anyone who regrets living in the Valley Of The Sun. It offers something that neither Dallas nor Atlanta can offer. The warm sunshine really does feel good during the non-summer months. There is no humidity and the Phoenix area is very clean, bright, sunny and has Palm Tree lined streets. I argue that it is has a better physical environment by far than either Dallas or Atlanta. Phoenix is a much better place to sit outside on the patio of the restaurants, relax and have a beer under the misters with a friend or going golfing. BTW, the attire in Phoenix is Khaki shorts, sandals, sunglasses and a SW themed shirt or a tee shirt. I think Phoenix is a little less stressful too and the people are less uptight. I believe that there is less drama in Phoenix which means less stress. I argue that Phoenix has less of a red neck element. It has a lot of influence and vibe from California.
Sure it's different. It doesnt fit the mold if you want it to be Atlanta or Dallas. I also dont think that they are worried about that very much. Places like Dallas and Atlanta I think they have more pressure to prove themselves. If you want an urban environment then why not just move to NYC or Chicago or San Fran, LA or even Philly and DC? Why live in Atlanta? Its 100 years behind those places. If you want mountains go to Seattle or Denver. Atlanta has plenty of competition nearby like Charlotte and Nashville or even Raleigh. It's a run of the mill place. Dallas too. I think that's why they have more to prove. They are not very unique nor is there anything unique about the physical environments. Sure make Hip Hop and R&B music. Knock yourself out. Meanwhile they'll be listening to it while drinking a beer under the misters.
That is a spot on post my friend, Phoenix has a way of getting bashed on CD threads for not fitting the stereotypical city design but people don't seem to realize that is 100% by design after the original city planners sought out to make something different. Why repeat what wasn't working with so many other places. As a result today, Phoenix is less urban but still offers multiple urban options, yet sees a fraction of the traffic congestion most cities its size does. Who wants to spend hours stuck in traffic when you can be poolside or hiking Camelback?
I do take the laid back culture for granted sometimes, when traveling I'll go hiking or mountain biking and as we do here say hi to people I see or make some small chat, it's shocking to me how often that is negatively received or completely ignored when I'm away from home. Hell, a few of my best friends I met out on the mountain biking trails including the guy who was my best man.
I need to explore Phoenix again. I think I'd appreciate its more laid-back approach compared to the DC area rat race I reside in and need a break from at times. Would I live there? Probably not, but I appreciate the desert scenery and how Phoenix integrates itself into it
I know I am not an expert on Phoenix so tell me what I said was so incorrect?
I was in the Air Force and lived at times on Luke AFB.Hence the reason I often was in Phoenix coming from Cannon AFB in Clovis NM.An officer friend of mind made the drive as he had family on Chandler and we would often hang out there.
Thanks for your service! Luke is great, I love watching the jets take off and land when I'm out in the White Tank Mountains, hopefully you got the chance to hike over there during the wetter season when the waterfalls are flowing. Luke Days is sadly canceled this year thanks to COVID but that's an awesome event.
So I have some experience which I gave. Apparentlty that wasnt enough as you didnt like what i said.
What does radio broadcast have to do with nightlife? And one club doesnt make a place have good nightlife.
Its beyond streptypical and insulting that you would bring up Hip Hop.
Im not even heavy in hip hop so I dont know why you would assume thats all I know or why a city of 5.7 million is mainly hip hop.
That is so ignorant and shows how much you need to leave AZ.
The last spot I went to before quarrantine was a place called Cafe Istanbul.
Its a Turkish spot with belly dancers food and Hookah opened till 2am.
Sounds a lot like a spot around here I like called Mijana, if you're in the valley again you should check it out. Home there's quite a few in Tempe as well this is another good one https://www.yelp.com/biz/mazaj-hookah-lounge-tempe-4
There are all sorts of places like this that cater to a very diverse population.This is what true urbanism looks like, A cosmopolitan atnosphere where a range of options are available.Its not just night clubs and bars and one genre.
Yeah, that's pretty normal isn't it? Phoenix also has large events that cater to a diverse population, this is M3F, one of the largest non-profit music festivals in the country.
To be honest I dont know many "hip hop " spots in Atlanta.
In Phoenix, we like pool parties too.
Atlanta has a very diverse nightlife.If you are gay or gay friendly there are tons of options mostly in Midtown Atlanta.
Buckhead is hardly hip hop central but has tons of typical bars and clubs packed with people.Nothing in Phoenix compares
Old Town Scottsdale isn't hip hop central either but the entertainment district is going off every weekend and you'll find dozens of DJs and scenes ranging from boujee to country to pool parties.
My scene is House Music and yes Atlanta has a big House music scene.
In fact their is a a huge House Music festival called House in the Park that brings in over 10,000 people every Labor day weekend.
I'm not into house personally and don't think it's big around you'd probably like Bar Smith and Monarch here in Phoenix.
It coencides with the Afro Punk festival. Another genre that brings in a international array of music across the African diaspora. Its alternative music that is HUGE. Again,NOT HIP HOP!
Also one of my favorite and most popular clubs in Atlanta isnt hip hop.In fact none of them are.Loca Luna is a Latin club that has dj and live music many nights If you like EDM which I dont thats too easy to find.
Phoenix does have an EDM scene, Phoenix Lights Festival is one of the big EDM events here. https://phoenixlightsfest.com/
District Atlanta
There are so many places you can eat late at night as well in Atlanta.Its just a lively city at night.It definately ranks in the top 10 in America
Don't most cities have places to eat late? From diners to pizza to tacos or wings I have no problem eating later than I should be awake these days.
I dont think the folks in Phoenix have anything to worry about. Phoenix is unique compared to Dallas and Atlanta. I wouldn't knock it. I rarely hear anyone who regrets living in the Valley Of The Sun. It offers something that neither Dallas nor Atlanta can offer. The warm sunshine really does feel good during the non-summer months. There is no humidity and the Phoenix area is very clean, bright, sunny and has Palm Tree lined streets. I argue that it is has a better physical environment by far than either Dallas or Atlanta. Phoenix is a much better place to sit outside on the patio of the restaurants, relax and have a beer under the misters with a friend or going golfing. BTW, the attire in Phoenix is Khaki shorts, sandals, sunglasses and a SW themed shirt or a tee shirt. I think Phoenix is a little less stressful too and the people are less uptight. I believe that there is less drama in Phoenix which means less stress. I argue that Phoenix has less of a red neck element. It has a lot of influence and vibe from California.
Sure it's different. It doesnt fit the mold if you want it to be Atlanta or Dallas. I also dont think that they are worried about that very much. Places like Dallas and Atlanta I think they have more pressure to prove themselves. If you want an urban environment then why not just move to NYC or Chicago or San Fran, LA or even Philly and DC? Why live in Atlanta? Its 100 years behind those places. If you want mountains go to Seattle or Denver. Atlanta has plenty of competition nearby like Charlotte and Nashville or even Raleigh. It's a run of the mill place. Dallas too. I think that's why they have more to prove. They are not very unique nor is there anything unique about the physical environments. Sure make Hip Hop and R&B music. Knock yourself out. Meanwhile they'll be listening to it while drinking a beer under the misters.
Apparently this has become personal.Critism is not welcome as this whole post was basically a hit on why YOU think PHX is great.Problem is ,not any of you can say what was said was inaccurate or wrong.
Actually Phoenix is pretty run of the mill. I see nothing about that stands out among cities.Its a nice plain city with a lack of any real sense of uranity. As in the quote I posted earlier from another poster that said it was like a bigger San Bernadino Valley California.
Nice place but its just not urban.A fact that apparently hurts many of you so much you need tyo go on why YOU think PHX is great which is not the point or even anything remotely contentious was said in regards to that.As I said before.I can see why some would prefer a city like PHX if not just for the landscape.
Maybe because Atlanta and those cities have so much competition,is why it is a more complete city than PHX?If PHX had more compettion maybe it wouldnt be even more run of the mill as you say Atlanta is.
As different as the physical landscape of Phoenix,its urban footprint is as mediocre as they come so yes in that since its fairly ungue as there arent many cities as large as PHX that have such a more suburban than urban design
Just a few facts :
Atlanta gets 51 million people each year to the city.More than Las Vegas.Huge numbers.
PHX gets 21 million. About as many as Cleveland.In other words:run of the mill
More people are likely to know more about famous Americans like Martin Luther King jr,Jimmy Carter,Margaret Mitchell,Bobby Jones, or about iconic Americans brands like Coca Cola ,CNN,Home Depot,Delta,UPS,Equifax,Rubbermaid. Interesting things to do like do the Porsche Experience at Porsche NA Headquarters of which its other big German carmaker ,Mercedes Benz has its headquarters along with French Automaker Peugeot who will be returning to the US market.
One of the of the things you wont find in PHX is a film and TV industry which has been called one of the largest putside of LA and NYC.
Studios like Tyler Perry Studios.(Laugh at your own ignorance)Screen Gems,Pinewood(majority fo Marvel movies made here).
I mean so many other studios and filming going on,its easy to see why shows like the Walkin Dead are international successes with Atlanta as the feaured city.
I mean what other city in the US was almost completely destroyed by war and one of the biggest books and later movieGone With the Wind) of all time was written around it?
Such an wasy cop out.You dont have to live in a mega city to be urban. If Savannah was bigger I could live there wasily. New Orleans is urban than all these cities but its not as cosmopolitan are lagre.
The fact is all those sities you mention that are models of urbanity have one thing in common:winter and higher cost of livng
For those things,most people would stay put. Id be living in DC if it werent for those things.Atlanta offered the best balance. Its got a subway where i can get on with my bike and ride all over the city .The beltline makes it that much easier and gives a higher level of urbanity that is found in more urban cities but its just not as consistent. It has far less to go than any of these cities.
Thats a fact on CD or off of it.
If a city like Atlanta is barely passing in that regard then why would Phoenix be better in this regard unless you are saying my observation is way off.If this is what you think ,then please be clear so I dont have to assume anything you didnt actually intend.
What many people dont realize is that Atlanta is older than many of the other Sunbelt cities and grew more than some other cities did earlier on.
Its growth was largely earlier but it did also have the same development paterns later as well.
Your insult is to most every city on the East Coast as the architects and planners often traveled from city to city as America grew.
When you go downtown Atlanta,you can see buildings like the Flat Iron Building which is one of the earlierst known types of skyscrapers in the country.It predates its most famous sibling in NYC
Many of Atlanta archetects and developers were from NY.
Piedmont Park was desiged by the Olmsteads of Fredrick Law Olmstead who desiged Central Park in NY.They actually desiged some other well known neighborhoods in Atlanta as well.Atlanta than any other city has more in common in its original downtown core than any city in the Sunbelt region with its Northeast siblings.
In fact there were even Atlanta architects that built sone notable buidings in NYC. The oldest ballet company in the US is the Atlanta Ballet. The Fox Theater is argurably the finest theaster on all of the South.It was built in 1929. Dallas and Houston of course have grea venues but nothing like the Fox. PHX doesnt I know.
Atlanta has a different and more storied history as a city than Dallas or Houston as seen in built environment
Like Phoenix,Atlanta and other sunblet cities have explosive population growth.
Wasnt it a Confederate solider South Carolina a founding father of Phoenix?
The key difference is what city offers the most urban experience that when people move from larger more urban cities what are they looking for.
Its a reason that the top destination for people leaving NYC is Atlanta.
One of the top 5 for Chicago,Philadelphia,DC,Miami is also,ATLANTA.
So while Cali transplants are more popular in Phoenix,it also shows how narrow the pull is.
Your quip about rednecks is just silly, Atlanta is way more cosmopolitan than Phoenix and way more diverse.
PHX is 72% white. Hardly diverse. Isnt Maricopa County ione of the most conservative urban counties in the entire country?
Quote:
Maricopa County has a long history of being a Republican Party stronghold. While the city of Phoenix leans towards the Democratic Party, along with some other small areas within the county, the rest of it tends to vote heavily Republican, making it one of the more conservative urban counties in the country. Every Republican presidential candidate has carried Maricopa County since 1948. This includes the 1964 presidential run of native son Barry Goldwater, who would not have carried his own state had it not been for a 21,000-vote margin in Maricopa County. It is currently the largest county in the country to vote Republican. Since 1964, Democrats have only kept the margin within single digits three times–in 1992, 1996, and 2016.
Quote:
Despite its apparent political leanings, Maricopa County voted against Proposition 107 in the 2006 election. This referendum, designed to ban gay marriage and restrict domestic partner benefits, was rejected by a 51.6–48.4% margin within the county, and statewide by a similar margin. Two years later, however, a majority of county residents voted to pass the ultimately successful state constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage.
Fulton County in which Atlanta largely lies had Domestic Partnerships in the mid 90's . Way before many counties and its City COuncil president a few years later was an openly gay woman.
Truth is if Phoenix was more urban and cosmopolitan,I could live there because the weather is great.I know I would miss the lush green hilly terrain of Atlanta areas. Agian its a preference.
Phoenix has a lot going for it but for me its not enough at this time where I would want to move there and there are more places Id rather visit than Phoenix even though I find it worthy enough to return one day.
Atlanta is only about HALF as dense as Phoenix is in the urban area. 3700 per square mile in Phoenix to only 1900 Per Square mile in Atlanta. I dont understand why the folks in Atlanta want to pretend that it's an urban paradise full of bling bling. That's horse puckey.
The last spot I went to before quarrantine was a place called Cafe Istanbul.
Its a Turkish spot with belly dancers food and Hookah opened till 2am.
There are all sorts of places like this that cater to a very diverse population.This is what true urbanism looks like, A cosmopolitan atnosphere where a range of options are available.Its not just night clubs and bars and one genre.
That's your example? Isn't Cafe Istanbul a chain? I know for sure there is one in Tempe and one in the LA area.
I lost count but this is a list of every mjor nationality that immigates to America by metro. Atlanta,Dallas and Houston aare in more places by far than Houston. Anybody care to tally up how many times each city shows up?
I highlighted in red where Atlanta shows up and started highlighting Phoenic half way through but gave up. Too much time but after about more than 20 countries seing Atlanta to Phoenix maybe three-five times,its more than clear Atlanta is well represented in many countries.
Just glancing at it I can tell you that Atlanta shows up in the top 5 cities more times than any of the cities in this poll and not sure but its close or even surpases Dallas and Houston in mumber of countries it is represented.
In a few countries ,Atlanta ws even number 2 or 3. I think it may be the only one of that bunch to be that high for any of the countries listed.
Source: US Census 2016 American Community Survey, 1 Year. Table B05006
Mexico
1. Los Angeles: 1,671,180 people
2. Houston: 638,520
3. Dallas: 631,243
4. Chicago: 630,065
5. Riverside, CA: 565,229
6. San Diego: 354,365
7. Phoenix: 341,721
8. New York: 321,254
9. San Francisco: 238,364
10. Las Vegas: 186,394
China
1. New York: 452,732 people
2. Los Angeles: 352,140
3. San Francisco: 297,832
4. San Jose: 123,565
5. Boston: 94,486
6. Chicago: 77,575
7. Seattle: 73,088
8. Washington DC: 69,476
9. Houston: 62,889
10. Philadelphia: 50,981
India
1. New York: 361,910 people
2. Chicago: 142,508
3. San Francisco: 128,512
4. San Jose: 121,391
5. Dallas: 108,570
6. Washington DC: 104,432
7. Los Angeles: 94,007
8. Philadelphia: 82,091
9. Houston: 75,609
10. Atlanta: 64,614
Philippines
1. Los Angeles: 290,701 people
2. San Francisco: 158,581
3. New York: 156,778
4. San Diego: 95,853
5. Las Vegas: 77,827
6. Chicago: 76,603
7. Riverside, CA: 67,031
8. San Jose: 59,995
9. Seattle: 51,903
10. Washington DC: 44,102
El Salvador
1. Los Angeles: 298,340 people
2. Washington DC: 200,283
3. New York: 151,674
4. Houston: 117,801
5. San Francisco: 63,310
6. Dallas: 57,117
7. Boston: 41,944
8. Riverside, CA: 34,449
9. Miami: 31,539
10. Atlanta: 21,415
Cuba
1. Miami: 807,571 people
2. Tampa: 66,596
3. New York: 61,248
4. Houston: 30,582
5. Orlando: 26,648
6. Las Vegas: 19,694
7. Los Angeles: 17,309
8. Dallas: 8086
9. Chicago: 7355
10. Atlanta: 7302
Vietnam
1. Los Angeles: 263,816 people
2. San Jose: 103,290
3. Houston: 91,080
4. San Francisco: 60,601
5. Dallas: 57,467
6. Washington DC: 49,992
7. Seattle: 46,491
8. San Diego: 41,079
9. Boston: 34,030
10. Atlanta: 30,456
Haiti
1. Miami: 219,033 people
2. New York: 177,656
3. Boston: 51,073
4. Orlando: 38,174
5. Philadelphia: 18,553
6. Atlanta: 13,960
7. Tampa: 10,107
8. Providence: 6701
9. Washington DC: 4491
10. Chicago: 3065
Honduras
1. New York: 86,845 people
2. Miami: 80,412
3. Houston: 60,812
4. Washington DC: 53,296
5. Los Angeles: 37,499
6. Dallas: 21,160
7. Atlanta: 17,261
8. Charlotte: 11,993
9. Boston: 11,434
10. Chicago: 10,026
Canada
1. New York: 48,003 people
2. Los Angeles: 40,842
3. Phoenix: 33,911
4. Miami: 32,010
5. Seattle: 25,009
6. Boston: 21,408
7. Detroit: 21,281
8. San Francisco: 18,599
9. Tampa: 17,839
10. Chicago: 15,130
United Kingdom
1. New York: 64,550 people
2. Los Angeles: 44,190
3. Boston: 19,866
4. Houston: 19,252
5. Washington DC: 18,682
6. Miami: 17,541
7. Chicago: 16,487
8. Seattle: 15,430
9. Atlanta: 15,262
10. Tampa: 14,610
Ecuador
1. New York: 247,223 people
2. Miami: 30,017
3. Chicago: 15,283
4. Los Angeles: 13,963
5. Orlando: 6967
6. Washington DC: 6754
7. Charlotte: 6368
8. Boston: 5638
9. Dallas: 5418
10. Tampa: 4899
Poland
1. Chicago: 131,410 people
2. New York: 105,941
3. Hartford, CT: 14,237
4. Detroit: 9757
5. Los Angeles: 9333
6. Miami: 8826
7. Philadelphia: 7749
8. Boston: 5786
9. Tampa: 4681
10. San Francisco: 4427
Peru
1. New York: 106,909 people
2. Miami: 54,939
3. Washington DC: 34,112
4. Los Angeles: 31,228
5. San Francisco: 16,748
6. Chicago: 7836
7. Riverside, CA: 7504
8. Houston: 7377
9. Orlando: 6474
10. Tampa: 6332
Iran
1. Los Angeles: 142,774 people
2. Washington DC: 22,905
3. New York: 22,214
4. San Francisco: 16,521
5. San Jose: 16,190
6. San Diego: 12,007
7. Dallas: 9799
8. Houston: 9587
9. Chicago: 7731
10. Atlanta: 6826
Brazil
1. Boston: 56,741 people
2. New York: 50,526
3. Miami: 48,389
4. Orlando: 19,584
5. Los Angeles: 14,596
6. Washington DC: 13,375
7. San Francisco: 12,534
8. Philadelphia: 10,943
9. Atlanta: 9519
10. San Diego: 8032
Pakistan
1. New York: 72,145 people
2. Houston: 34,931
3. Washington DC: 30,566
4. Chicago: 27,930
5. Los Angeles: 18,266
6. Dallas: 15,371
7. San Francisco: 12,631
8. Atlanta: 11,727
9. Philadelphia: 9143
10. Miami: 7901
Germany
1. New York: 48,164 people
2. Los Angeles: 23,394
3. Chicago: 17,950
4. Washington DC: 16,674
5. San Francisco: 15,186
6. Miami: 12,543
7. Seattle: 11,880
8. Atlanta: 10,759
9. Philadelphia: 10,046
10. Detroit: 9921
Russia
1. New York: 84,987 people
2. Los Angeles: 25,308
3. Chicago: 16,983
4. Boston: 16,169
5. San Francisco: 14,510
6. Washington DC: 11,704
7. Seattle: 11,686
8. Miami: 9992
9. Philadelphia: 9902
10. Portland: 9615
Ukraine
1. New York: 89,222 people
2. Chicago: 21,609
3. Portland: 19,239
4. Seattle: 18,748
5. Los Angeles: 17,035
6. Philadelphia: 16,990
7. Sacramento: 15,618
8. Boston: 8496
9. Miami: 8413
10. San Francisco: 7883
Nigeria
1. New York: 44,915 people
2. Houston: 39,672
3. Washington DC: 27,916
4. Dallas: 27,047
5. Atlanta: 22,819
6. Los Angeles: 13,435
7. Chicago: 11,954
8. Baltimore: 10,377
9. Philadelphia: 7043
10. Riverside, CA: 5068
Italy
1. New York: 113,791 people
2. Chicago: 18,510
3. Boston: 17,025
4. Miami: 14,440
5. Philadelphia: 11,875
6. Los Angeles: 11,793
7. Detroit: 8112
8. Hartford, CT: 6630
9. San Francisco: 6167
10. Washington DC: 4570
Venezuela
1. Miami: 114,178 people
2. Orlando: 27,324
3. Houston: 21,075
4. New York: 18,156
5. Tampa: 8056
6. Atlanta: 6520
7. Washington DC: 5217
8. Boston: 4810
9. Los Angeles: 4359
10. Dallas: 3885
Japan
1. Los Angeles: 46,495 people
2. New York: 40,293
3. San Francisco: 17,248
4. Seattle: 14,130
5. San Jose: 13,315
6. Chicago: 10,689
7. San Diego: 10,350
8. Washington DC: 9509
9. Boston: 7348
10. Detroit: 6400
South Africa
1. New York: 8922 people
2. Los Angeles: 7733
3. Miami: 4735
4. Atlanta: 4671
5. San Francisco: 4101
6. Dallas: 3481
7. San Diego: 3053
8. Washington DC: 2988
9. Seattle: 2598
10. Houston: 2423
Chile
1. New York: 15,387 people
2. Miami: 13,407
3. Los Angeles: 7563
4. Washington DC: 4123
5. San Francisco: 2731
6. Chicago: 1952
7. Seattle: 1690
8. Houston: 1559
9. Boston: 1477
10. San Jose: 1364
That's your example? Isn't Cafe Istanbul a chain? I know for sure there is one in Tempe and one in the LA area.
There are many but I have many close Turkish friends and they like going there. I think its just a common name more than a chain.
As I am typing this I remember I also went to Sivas in Midtown with some other Turkish friends but its Turkish in ownewrship and some food options and they have hookah.The music they play is loud hip hop with a mixed crowd depending on when you go. Most of the staff is from Turkey
We lived in Atlanta 12 years, and left 15 years ago.
It's probably the least expensive of the big cities to live in, with Houston the only large city in it's ballpark for cost of living.
It has all the amenities, including professional sports and great culture with symphonies and art museums. And it's a fantastic restaurant city.
But Atlanta is just an hour from the Blue Ridge mountains, and two magnificent lakes are close by to the north. When it got noon on Fridays, we adjourned to our place up in the mountains for weekends.
We left because of the traffic. It sometimes took me 2 hrs. to cross town going to work in outside sales. We moved to the Tennessee River in Alabama where we have a waterfront home.
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Urban area density
