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New York and Chicago. The rest are after thoughts. Boston? LOL
your comment completely dismisses the value of history in this discussion..Boston was the first system in the USA..Boston belongs in the conversation of being iconic for that reason alone...otherwise no...us cities will gain in prominence and fall back in prominence over decades and centuries...the cities that started it won’t change...
Editing this: after reading the initial post again it seems to have more to do with being recognizable - I don’t believe any are particularly recognizable - maybe the elevated el train and San Fran trolleys
I alluded to this earlier. American's lack of knowledge of Canada's transit makes me wonder why we are included in this poll at all. They assume since THEY don't know about Toronto's streetcars the rest of the world doesn't either.
Toronto's streetcars ARE iconic.
I encountered this a few years ago in another thread. It was about automated metro's etc. The fact Vancouver's Skytrain system is the largest automated system in the world, didn't seem to matter to the conversation. I gave up
Keep in mind that everyone has a different definition of "iconic". Just because the Vancouver post didn't get any burn, doesn't mean that automatically everyone is ignorant.
I have used the Vancouver system and its a decent system, I think adequate is the best way to describe it. I have a really tough time naming 5 truly iconic systems in the US and Canada and I have used most of them extensively.
I grew up taking the TTC and I have fond memories of riding the old street cars, but thank god they are gone and replaced with a superior product.
Same with Boston, adequate system that does the job, but not iconic. Despite the fact that it was the 2nd metro system in the world after London and 1st in North America. So if people dont consider that iconic, then really and truly do you expect the TTC and Vancouver systems are going to register on everyone's radar?
I alluded to this earlier. American's lack of knowledge of Canada's transit makes me wonder why we are included in this poll at all. They assume since THEY don't know about Toronto's streetcars the rest of the world doesn't either.
"You don't agree with my opinion therefore you're all just ignorant"
On the contrary, I'm very knowledgeable of Canada's transit systems and rail history. Some might even call me a subject matter expert in the field of North American transit. Not to mention, I've traveled to 50+ countries and have been on countless transit systems.
So frankly, I don't appreciate your dismissive attitude because people don't agree with you. Especially when you know nothing about the people who you are conversing with.
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Toronto's streetcars ARE iconic.
Yes, very iconic. But not as iconic as NYC subway, Chicago El, or SF cable cars. It's just not. Get over it.
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I encountered this a few years ago in another thread. It was about automated metro's etc. The fact Vancouver's Skytrain system is the largest automated system in the world, didn't seem to matter to the conversation. I gave up
[/quote]
I don't know the context, but Translink is just about the most impressive transit agency in North America, so I'd probably have your back.
Keep in mind that everyone has a different definition of "iconic". Just because the Vancouver post didn't get any burn, doesn't mean that automatically everyone is ignorant.
I have used the Vancouver system and its a decent system, I think adequate is the best way to describe it. I have a really tough time naming 5 truly iconic systems in the US and Canada and I have used most of them extensively.
I grew up taking the TTC and I have fond memories of riding the old street cars, but thank god they are gone and replaced with a superior product.
Same with Boston, adequate system that does the job, but not iconic. Despite the fact that it was the 2nd metro system in the world after London and 1st in North America. So if people dont consider that iconic, then really and truly do you expect the TTC and Vancouver systems are going to register on everyone's radar?
3rd: Budapest opened a trolley subway in between London and Boston.
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Originally Posted by Ne999
your comment completely dismisses the value of history in this discussion..Boston was the first system in the USA..Boston belongs in the conversation of being iconic for that reason alone...otherwise no...us cities will gain in prominence and fall back in prominence over decades and centuries...the cities that started it won’t change...
Editing this: after reading the initial post again it seems to have more to do with being recognizable - I don’t believe any are particularly recognizable - maybe the elevated el train and San Fran trolleys
I think when most people hear the word "icon" or its adjective form "iconic," the definition they conjure up in their heads is a visual one; that's, it's some object or person that's immediately associated with something else when one sees it — just as the icons on your computer screen are associated with a program that will run when you click on them.
History has little or nothing to do with that visual quality. Yes, some historic structures are iconic because of the events that took place in them, and those are often associated with their cities; Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia are good examples of this. Paris' Eiffel Tower, a visually unique historic engineering achievement, is another. But the mere fact that something is historic doesn't necessarily make it iconic.
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Originally Posted by newgensandiego
"You don't agree with my opinion therefore you're all just ignorant"
On the contrary, I'm very knowledgeable of Canada's transit systems and rail history. Some might even call me a subject matter expert in the field of North American transit. Not to mention, I've traveled to 50+ countries and have been on countless transit systems.
So frankly, I don't appreciate your dismissive attitude because people don't agree with you. Especially when you know nothing about the people who you are conversing with.
Yes, very iconic. But not as iconic as NYC subway, Chicago El, or SF cable cars. It's just not. Get over it.
I'm jumping in here to say that the people who say San Francisco's trolleys as well as the cable cars are iconic are off base; the historic PCCs painted in various liveries that the Market Street Railway preservation society maintains and SFMTA runs down Market Street are historic (and almost all of them come from one of two cities: the PCCs come from Philadelphia and the older wooden cars from Milan), but people don't think "San Francsico!" when they see those the way they would seeing a picture of a cable car.
Similarly, some have nominated New Orleans' streetcars in this department. There, the only truly historic ones are those running the St. Charles car line, the oldest continuously operating streetcar line in the country; those operating on the other lines are newer replicas of those (with odd, boxy decorative clerestories atop them). But I think that few would recognize a St. Charles streetcar as being a New Orleans image where they would immediately recognize a shot of Bourbon Street (even empty) as one.
Toronto may cross this threshold because its bright red-white-and-black CLRVs could be spotted on many TV shows shot there, but I think the only people who would pick those instead of the CN Tower as a Torontonian icon would be traingeeks like you and me.
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I don't know the context, but Translink is just about the most impressive transit agency in North America, so I'd probably have your back.
I'd long held that opinion of the Toronto Transit Commission.
I alluded to this earlier. American's lack of knowledge of Canada's transit makes me wonder why we are included in this poll at all. They assume since THEY don't know about Toronto's streetcars the rest of the world doesn't either.
Toronto's streetcars ARE iconic.
I think it's safe to say that if Americans aren't aware of something in Canada (like Toronto's streetcars), people in other countries are very unlikely to be aware of it as well.
(Barring some very specific outlier phenomena like the Japanese obsession for Anne of Green Gables.)
3rd: Budapest opened a trolley subway in between London and Boston.
I think when most people hear the word "icon" or its adjective form "iconic," the definition they conjure up in their heads is a visual one; that's, it's some object or person that's immediately associated with something else when one sees it — just as the icons on your computer screen are associated with a program that will run when you click on them.
History has little or nothing to do with that visual quality. Yes, some historic structures are iconic because of the events that took place in them, and those are often associated with their cities; Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia are good examples of this. Paris' Eiffel Tower, a visually unique historic engineering achievement, is another. But the mere fact that something is historic doesn't necessarily make it iconic.
I'm jumping in here to say that the people who say San Francisco's trolleys as well as the cable cars are iconic are off base; the historic PCCs painted in various liveries that the Market Street Railway preservation society maintains and SFMTA runs down Market Street are historic (and almost all of them come from one of two cities: the PCCs come from Philadelphia and the older wooden cars from Milan), but people don't think "San Francsico!" when they see those the way they would seeing a picture of a cable car.
Similarly, some have nominated New Orleans' streetcars in this department. There, the only truly historic ones are those running the St. Charles car line, the oldest continuously operating streetcar line in the country; those operating on the other lines are newer replicas of those (with odd, boxy decorative clerestories atop them). But I think that few would recognize a St. Charles streetcar as being a New Orleans image where they would immediately recognize a shot of Bourbon Street (even empty) as one.
Toronto may cross this threshold because its bright red-white-and-black CLRVs could be spotted on many TV shows shot there, but I think the only people who would pick those instead of the CN Tower as a Torontonian icon would be traingeeks like you and me.
I'd long held that opinion of the Toronto Transit Commission.
One thing about the L, SF Cable Cars/ Trolleys and New Orleans Trolleys is you can’t take a picture of the transit without taking a picture of the city. So even if you don’t recognize the rolling stock of the St Charles Streetcar you might recognize St Charles Street.
Same thing when you take a picture of the Loop you are taking a picture of the streetscape. If you take a picture of the DC Subway it’s an isolated Subway Station.
If you rode Boston's MBTA lately, you may find it iconic in a negative way - because of the delays, shuttles and overall nightmare experience they have been lately. .I'm sorry, I had to lol.
When I say lately.. I'm talking 2018, 2019, pre covid.
I think we can all agree on NYC, Chicago, and SF, but it’s less clear after that. I think it’s important to note that there probably are not going to be any more cities near the level of those 3, so there’s going to be a significant drop off from there. Also keep in mind that our continent is notoriously lacking in transit, so #4 and #5 may not be instantly recognizable by everyone, because it just might not be possible to name 5 public transit systems in US/Canada as instantly recognizable as NYC/CHI/SF, and that’s fine. Anyway, I think that DC is in the top 5.
DC is unique in The US since it chose to invest in an extensive rapid transit system instead of an inner-city highway network. It also has a very unique look to it anyone familiar with DC — either as a local or as a tourist that used transit — could recognize it easily, not sure about the average person. But everyone at least knows that DC has a Metro system (whether they can identify it or not), it’s the 2nd busiest RT system in the US behind NYC, and it has its own unique style.
As far as Toronto, it’s possible that I may have been ignorant before I first went there in 2014(? IIRC), but I honestly did not know about the streetcars. I thought it was going to be more of a subway city like New York, but the subway system is relatively small for a city of that size. It definitely did seem like streetcars play a very important role over there. I honestly don’t know how well-known they are though. I may have just been ignorant and my trip there was very last minute and impromptu with a friend for a weekend in college. I can say it’s confidence though that it’s nowhere near as iconic as SF cablecars.
And with Vancouver: I‘ve never been but I know about the sky train, and could probably identify it if I saw a picture based on background scenery. I also know that it’s the largest completely automated RT system in the world, so in my personal opinion I would rank it in the top 5 with DC. I should say that I’ve always been fascinated with Vancouver and always wanted to visit. It’s possible that my personal interests affect my opinions here, but as an unbiased person that’s not from any of these cities, I’m just providing what I personally know. And I always use transit when traveling and visiting other cities.
So I vote for DC and Vancouver. With Toronto and Boston just missing the cutoff, in my opinion. Others might be disagree and have different opinions.
Así es ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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.I'm sorry, I had to lol.
