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Mm I don't think so. Was mainly explaining why Tampa "has a smaller skyline than youd expect", "bad downtown", etc, typical things CD goes on about in regards to Tampa. I still wouldn't say it's underachieved. It's the anchor of a region of 3.1-4 million people and most of those companies I listed are still in Tampa, just not in downtown specifically. It's growing great and the city leadership is learning to adapt, which is good.
Well when talking about importance, which is what it boils down to, the main point that was made about Tampa was that it doesn't really stand out for anything in particular or really specialize in anything. That doesn't mean it's not a nice place, but with most metros that size, you could usually point to one or two things. I know part of that is a function of being in Florida and overshadowed by Miami and Orlando though; but it still got to its present size with the amenities that it has while staying in its lane and being content with its natural and built advantages it seems.
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Charlotte, Austin, Vegas, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Portland, etc don't have a similar set up. Tampa is still larger than all of them, but St Pete, and on a smaller scale Clearwater/Lakeland/Sarasota just change the dynamic, but in a good way. I don't really see the equivalence with Phoenix either honestly, but that's just me. But the way Austin, etc has been growing, Tampa is starting to grow that way, just not as intense.
Tampa Bay is larger than those places, yes; Tampa itself, not quite.
The equivalence with Phoenix revolves around the fact that its suburbs (Scottsdale, Glendale, etc.) steal some of its thunder in terms of culture, attractions, walkability, etc. the same way that St. Petersburg, Clearwater, etc. steal some of Tampa's thunder.
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Honestly I personally wouldn't call any of these cities underachievers except for maybe St Louis. As far as ranking I don't really care enough. They'll all up there.
St. Louis may have declined in relative importance over the years, but with more things going for it, if it is an underachiever, then Tampa Bay would have to be even more of one. With St. Louis, at least it has some iconic or somewhat known things associated with it (the Arch, breweries, World's Fair, Olympics, blues).
I personally don't think Tampa belongs with those cities, but I didn't make this thread. I just compared with them because they're in this thread. Just wanted to clarify some things about how the region operates. Austin, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Sacramento, Vegas, etc don't belong in the discussion imo. Tampa belongs with Charlotte, Denver, San Diego, St Louis, Baltimore.
Tampa is not seen as Orlando's little brother, I've never heard that before. It is larger and older than Orlando is (Tampa has Florida's oldest restaurant) and most people don't know they're so close together. As much as Tampa's skyline gets railed on, it's still larger than Orlando's. Hillsborough was the only county in Florida that grew at least 20k last year and Tampa is #1 in Florida in job growth and demand, so someone apparently knows about it.
I'm not surprised about Orlando's reception though, it's a center of worldwide tourism and is easily a more known city. The airport hit 50 million last year and it's not a hub. In Florida, the reception of the two cities is similar, but from what I've seen and heard Tampa typically gets the edge. Both cities seem to have a better reception than Miami. Coming from outside of Florida, Jacksonville is the only city that seems to not really get wowed about. People know Tampa, it just usually gets thought of with St Pete, rather than a standalone. One thing I noticed though: with the Tom Brady news, there was much more "Brady is headed to Tampa" discussion than "Brady is headed to Tampa Bay." So people are aware it exists as its own thing.
Well, Tampa was compared directly with these other cities of the Clt, Denver, SD ilk, and not only did it come in dead last, it really wasn't even close to any other city:
Even within this poll, SJ is a city largely crapped on as a generic suburb, is viewed as pretty even to Tampa...
CD polls aren't gospel, but given we know most people don't go around thinking about the kind of stuff we discuss on here, it does give some insight into, what the people who do care about this stuff, think...
Tampa is grouped more often with Charlotte just because they are the next largest cities within their region, but the perception isn't that Clt and Tampa are 1:1 peers. Tampa's perception is that it, more or less, is around the caliber of cities like Orlando, significantly smaller cities...
Well, Tampa was compared directly with these other cities of the Clt, Denver, SD ilk, and not only did it come in dead last, it really wasn't even close to any other city:
Even within this poll, SJ is a city largely crapped on as a generic suburb, is viewed as pretty even to Tampa...
CD polls aren't gospel, but given we know most people don't go around thinking about the kind of stuff we discuss on here, it does give some insight into, what the people who do care about this stuff, think...
Tampa is grouped more often with Charlotte just because they are the next largest cities within their region, but the perception isn't that Clt and Tampa are 1:1 peers. Tampa's perception is that it, more or less, is around the caliber of cities like Orlando, significantly smaller cities...
CD is full of boosters and homers, I don't really care about CD poll comparisons - especially when it comes to darlings Austin and Nashville. There was a Nashville vs Tampa thread and people kept giving Nashville the nod for crime, even though a simple google search would show you that Tampa is the much safer city, county, and metro. So CD is not the reliable place when doing a versus. And most people haven't been to the cities they vote on. I haven't been to most of these cities so I didn't vote in the poll, nor do I really care about it to begin with. Tampa has been compared with plenty of cities on CD. And it's been compared with Orlando, and usually gets the nod. There's a thread in the Florida forum about whether Tampa is Florida's "quintessential city" and the majority answer was yes. I wasn't giving you CD anecdotes, I was telling you what I've seen and heard in real life from both an insiders and outsiders perspective since you asked, and assumed, that Tampa was a little brother to Orlando, which...no...
I didn't grow up in Florida, but from everyone I know that has, Miami is the most polarizing. It's either "I don't ever plan on coming back" or "I don't ever plan on leaving." There is no inbetween. Fort Lauderdale is a little better, but it's much more "Broward County Pride" than "Ft Lauderdale Pride." Jax doesn't get much boosting, they like being lower key, but they will say "Duuuuvalllll." Orlando has been fine. My friends like it, but they don't go to the tourist traps, so I'm told it can get a little boring. Downtown Orlando gets a lot of praise. One of my good friends is moving to Orlando for a job, but his sister lives in Tampa and he likes Tampa's vibe a lot better.
Fort Myers is seen as an old peoples paradise, but they like the beaches. The Panhandle nobody talks about unless it's Pensacola or Tallahassee. Tampa and St Pete have got the most positive talk from outsiders and locals. I'm veryyyyyyyy familiar with Charlotte, and Tampa and Charlotte are similar to me. But again, my initial point wasn't about who is better and who goes with who. I saw comments about Tampa underachieving, which you typically hear for superficial reasons, and I wanted to call it out.
Well when talking about importance, which is what it boils down to, the main point that was made about Tampa was that it doesn't really stand out for anything in particular or really specialize in anything. That doesn't mean it's not a nice place, but with most metros that size, you could usually point to one or two things. I know part of that is a function of being in Florida and overshadowed by Miami and Orlando though; but it still got to its present size with the amenities that it has while staying in its lane and being content with its natural and built advantages it seems.
I really dont see the big deal. Tampa's known for some things: the Bay, cigars, cuban sandwiches, Busch Gardens, pirates, etc, and thanks to Netflix, now Big Cat Rescue. Other than obvious tourism, Tampa specializes in healthcare and finance - but that's not unique and it's not broadcasted everywhere, so I don't expect someone in Omaha to know that. Busch Gardens is the 11th most visited park in North America, and 3rd if you take away everything Disney related, and the 1st most visited park outside of Orlando and Anaheim. So people know.
What did Charlotte stand out for? Sacramento? Newark? Fort Worth? Landmarks give cities a good postcard, but I don't see the importance in this context, unless it's DC. LA didn't grow into what it did because it has a Hollywood Sign. Austin is booming because of its tech scene, but not because it's been known for SXSW. That could easily have been San Antonio.
And being overshadowed doesn't matter either, at least not to me. San Diego gets overshadowed by LA and San Fran, but I don't think that hurts it at all. Orlando is a tourism mecca and Miami is the closest US city to Latin America, so it's obvious why they'd get the more known nod.
Disneyworld was almost built in St Louis and then New Orleans. Disney helped build Orlando, Orlando didn't build Disney. When you have Disney World Resort + Universal + Seaworld, it's not surprising that you've been put on the map. I think both cities help make good claims for the I4 corridor.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Tampa Bay is larger than those places, yes; Tampa itself, not quite.
The equivalence with Phoenix revolves around the fact that its suburbs (Scottsdale, Glendale, etc.) steal some of its thunder in terms of culture, attractions, walkability, etc. the same way that St. Petersburg, Clearwater, etc. steal some of Tampa's thunder.
Even if you erased St Pete from the map, it's still 2.1-2.8 million people. Tampa city hasnt swallowed up land like Charlotte, Austin, San Antonio, Nashville, etc. Like Miami and Orlando, much of "Tampa" is not in the city limits. USF for instance is in Tampa city limits, but everything to the right and left of USF is not. It's weird. But Tampa is intertwined. Raymond James, one of the most coveted employers in the region, is equidistant from central Tampa and central St Pete. Which is why I said Tampa has a different dynamic than these cities. It's larger, but it's different.
Sure I guess. Still not a complete comparison to me considering St Pete and Clearwater aren't suburbs, the growth history is different and suburbs have been known to do that to cities, but sure I see your point. Phoenix is just massive.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
St. Louis may have declined in relative importance over the years, but with more things going for it, if it is an underachiever, then Tampa Bay would have to be even more of one. With St. Louis, at least it has some iconic or somewhat known things associated with it (the Arch, breweries, World's Fair, Olympics, blues).
I only said St Louis because the government has held the city back from being what it could be, but yes, St Louis has a lot going on, though I still don't see why having an Arch is that big a deal outside of being picturesque. But that's just me.
As I've said, I really don't care about vesus'ing these cities. I just wanted to defend the underachiever talk. Tampa's acheived. All the cities in this thread are growing and have something good about them.
CD is full of boosters and homers, I don't really care about CD poll comparisons - especially when it comes to darlings Austin and Nashville. There was a Nashville vs Tampa thread and people kept giving Nashville the nod for crime, even though a simple google search would show you that Tampa is the much safer city, county, and metro. So CD is not the reliable place when doing a versus. And most people haven't been to the cities they vote on. I haven't been to most of these cities so I didn't vote in the poll, nor do I really care about it to begin with. Tampa has been compared with plenty of cities on CD. And it's been compared with Orlando, and usually gets the nod. There's a thread in the Florida forum about whether Tampa is Florida's "quintessential city" and the majority answer was yes. I wasn't giving you CD anecdotes, I was telling you what I've seen and heard in real life from both an insiders and outsiders perspective since you asked, and assumed, that Tampa was a little brother to Orlando, which...no...
I didn't grow up in Florida, but from everyone I know that has, Miami is the most polarizing. It's either "I don't ever plan on coming back" or "I don't ever plan on leaving." There is no inbetween. Fort Lauderdale is a little better, but it's much more "Broward County Pride" than "Ft Lauderdale Pride." Jax doesn't get much boosting, they like being lower key, but they will say "Duuuuvalllll." Orlando has been fine. My friends like it, but they don't go to the tourist traps, so I'm told it can get a little boring. Downtown Orlando gets a lot of praise. One of my good friends is moving to Orlando for a job, but his sister lives in Tampa and he likes Tampa's vibe a lot better.
Fort Myers is seen as an old peoples paradise, but they like the beaches. The Panhandle nobody talks about unless it's Pensacola or Tallahassee. Tampa and St Pete have got the most positive talk from outsiders and locals. I'm veryyyyyyyy familiar with Charlotte, and Tampa and Charlotte are similar to me. But again, my initial point wasn't about who is better and who goes with who. I saw comments about Tampa underachieving, which you typically hear for superficial reasons, and I wanted to call it out.
But here's the thing though: although I never used the term (at least I don't think I did), simply saying that a city/region underachieves isn't saying a whole lot in and of itself since it's relative. As I stated before, it seems to me that people are referring to the fact that it doesn't specialize or stand out in any particular area, whether that be economic, cultural, political, etc.--which isn't the same as saying that it's boring, or Anyplace USA, or a bad place to live at all. Also, people aren't saying that Tampa is unique in this regard as there are other cities for which this is true. When it comes to Tampa though, its so-called "underachiever" status tells me two things: 1) That it got to its present size and status without really even trying particularly hard means it didn't actually have to. Although its individual/local brand isn't all that strong, it benefits from the Florida brand and has some of everything that Florida positively evokes: beaches, theme parks, warm climate, Hispanic cultural influence, etc. It has the benefit of geography being located on a bay and having rich phosphorous deposits, and the development of Florida beginning in the late 19th/early 20th century as a huge real estate development by private industrial interests provided the transportation infrastructure backbone of most of Florida's major urban areas and remain critical to this day. And then of course, during WWII the country invested in facilities and infrastructure all over the country and Tampa Bay benefited from large numbers of military personnel stationed in the area, and of course you have the invention of AC. Local leaders had in Florida cities had much less of a shoulder to burden to bring prosperity to their cities due to significant involvement of industrialists, the federal government, and state government in the postbellum and postwar eras. 2) If Tampa got to its current size and status without trying all that hard, what could it have been, or what could it be in the future, if it put in some serious effort to become more economically competitive in specific sectors beyond tourism? It would most certainly be a force to be reckoned with. But it only made sense for the region to develop and evolve based on its natural advantages and it seems like St. Petersburg in particular has done and is doing a great job at that with its burgeoning cultural arts scene.
CD is full of boosters and homers, I don't really care about CD poll comparisons - especially when it comes to darlings Austin and Nashville. There was a Nashville vs Tampa thread and people kept giving Nashville the nod for crime, even though a simple google search would show you that Tampa is the much safer city, county, and metro. So CD is not the reliable place when doing a versus. And most people haven't been to the cities they vote on. I haven't been to most of these cities so I didn't vote in the poll, nor do I really care about it to begin with. Tampa has been compared with plenty of cities on CD. And it's been compared with Orlando, and usually gets the nod. There's a thread in the Florida forum about whether Tampa is Florida's "quintessential city" and the majority answer was yes. I wasn't giving you CD anecdotes, I was telling you what I've seen and heard in real life from both an insiders and outsiders perspective since you asked, and assumed, that Tampa was a little brother to Orlando, which...no...
I didn't grow up in Florida, but from everyone I know that has, Miami is the most polarizing. It's either "I don't ever plan on coming back" or "I don't ever plan on leaving." There is no inbetween. Fort Lauderdale is a little better, but it's much more "Broward County Pride" than "Ft Lauderdale Pride." Jax doesn't get much boosting, they like being lower key, but they will say "Duuuuvalllll." Orlando has been fine. My friends like it, but they don't go to the tourist traps, so I'm told it can get a little boring. Downtown Orlando gets a lot of praise. One of my good friends is moving to Orlando for a job, but his sister lives in Tampa and he likes Tampa's vibe a lot better.
Fort Myers is seen as an old peoples paradise, but they like the beaches. The Panhandle nobody talks about unless it's Pensacola or Tallahassee. Tampa and St Pete have got the most positive talk from outsiders and locals. I'm veryyyyyyyy familiar with Charlotte, and Tampa and Charlotte are similar to me. But again, my initial point wasn't about who is better and who goes with who. I saw comments about Tampa underachieving, which you typically hear for superficial reasons, and I wanted to call it out.
I don't know why you put Austin as a darling. There was an Austin vs Raleigh post and someone put Raleigh down as more friendly for non-smokers despite the fact that Austin had already banned smoking in restaurants/bars well before Raleigh and that Raleigh is basically in tobacco country. Austin is not a darling here. Nashville, yes.
I really dont see the big deal. Tampa's known for some things: the Bay, cigars, cuban sandwiches, Busch Gardens, pirates, etc, and thanks to Netflix, now Big Cat Rescue. Other than obvious tourism, Tampa specializes in healthcare and finance - but that's not unique and it's not broadcasted everywhere, so I don't expect someone in Omaha to know that. Busch Gardens is the 11th most visited park in North America, and 3rd if you take away everything Disney related, and the 1st most visited park outside of Orlando and Anaheim. So people know.
What did Charlotte stand out for? Sacramento? Newark? Fort Worth? Landmarks give cities a good postcard, but I don't see the importance in this context, unless it's DC. LA didn't grow into what it did because it has a Hollywood Sign. Austin is booming because of its tech scene, but not because it's been known for SXSW. That could easily have been San Antonio.
Now come on...you know what Charlotte stands out for, which happens to be the industry most responsible for its rapid ascension. Sacramento seems to be another city that isn't specifically known or strongly associated with anything in particular except its status as state capital. Newark's reputation has seen better days for sure, but it's closely associated with NY and the port of NY/NJ. Fort Worth is known as where the West begins, cowboy culture, oil, its stockyards, etc.--pretty much a distillation of the legacy Texas stuff on which it has based its identity as one distinct from the rest of the South. I'm not arguing for landmarks in particular, but for St. Louis, the Arch is representative of its historic importance and status and that does play a role in importance. As far as Austin and the role of SXSW, I'd beg to differ; tech and SXSW actually kinda go hand in hand and seeing as though it started off as a purely live music festival, something for which Austin was already quite famous, I don't see how San Antonio could have successfully kicked it off and developed it the way Austin has with the increasing role of tech. SXSW is pretty much the modern-day version of the World Fairs and industrial expositions of the late 19th/early 20th century.
Oh and maybe I didn't express this clearly, but it's not just about Tampa or any city being known for specializing in certain areas, but the fact that it isn't really much of a specialist in any significant area (secondary or tertiary industry) on a national level and its location on peninsular Florida with Orlando not far away restricts its regional influence.
[quote]And being overshadowed doesn't matter either, at least not to me. San Diego gets overshadowed by LA and San Fran, but I don't think that hurts it at all. Orlando is a tourism mecca and Miami is the closest US city to Latin America, so it's obvious why they'd get the more known nod.
Disneyworld was almost built in St Louis and then New Orleans. Disney helped build Orlando, Orlando didn't build Disney. When you have Disney World Resort + Universal + Seaworld, it's not surprising that you've been put on the map. I think both cities help make good claims for the I4 corridor.[/QUOTE
Wait, you don't think San Diego being in LA's shadow doesn't hurt it??? Even folks in San Diego would disagree with that one. And yes Disney (and Universal) very much helped to build Orlando. Sometimes it is very much a matter of serendipity; that is a factor for sure but it is what it is. DC was chosen to be built where it is from scratch as the nation's capital but that doesn't take away from what it is. It was state leaders across a variety of entities that collectively decided to create a research park between Raleigh and Durham, not those cities' leaders. It was the federal government that decided to invest as it did in Huntsville. And so on and so forth. Whether these specialties or strong associations came about as a matter of intentional actions by local leaders or as a matter of serendipity with outside actors involved, they still happened.
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Even if you erased St Pete from the map, it's still 2.1-2.8 million people. Tampa city hasnt swallowed up land like Charlotte, Austin, San Antonio, Nashville, etc. Like Miami and Orlando, much of "Tampa" is not in the city limits. USF for instance is in Tampa city limits, but everything to the right and left of USF is not. It's weird. But Tampa is intertwined. Raymond James, one of the most coveted employers in the region, is equidistant from central Tampa and central St Pete. Which is why I said Tampa has a different dynamic than these cities. It's larger, but it's different.
I understand, and to be fair I'm not just talking about the city limits of Tampa. While Tampa and St. Petersburg and several smaller cities in the area are all considered a singular urbanized area, there's it consists of two pretty well-defined lobes, one belonging to Tampa and the other to St. Petersburg. It's quite easy to take the Tampa side and make comparisons to the urbanized areas of those other cities.
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I only said St Louis because the government has held the city back from being what it could be, but yes, St Louis has a lot going on, though I still don't see why having an Arch is that big a deal outside of being picturesque. But that's just me.
The Arch is a pretty well-recognized national landmark and if I'm not mistaken, our most famous man-made urban landmarks are in historically significant places that still have a measure of significance today. Even though Kansas City had a stronger claim as the Gateway to the West, the state of Missouri as a whole played a critical role in the westward expansion of the nation, as well as other states/cities. It's a testament to St. Louis' split/multiple regional identities, moreso northern, eastern, and southern, that made it unique and signficant even unto this day.
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As I've said, I really don't care about vesus'ing these cities. I just wanted to defend the underachiever talk. Tampa's acheived. All the cities in this thread are growing and have something good about them.
I saw "underachiever" being used in a certain context (which has also been applied to other places) and not in a general sense. But that's why I never used the term myself, especially sense I didn't even bring Tampa up.
I don't know why you put Austin as a darling. There was an Austin vs Raleigh post and someone put Raleigh down as more friendly for non-smokers despite the fact that Austin had already banned smoking in restaurants/bars well before Raleigh and that Raleigh is basically in tobacco country. Austin is not a darling here. Nashville, yes.
Austin has its detractors here, but it's still very much a darling and I suspect Jandrew5 was really referring to its status as a media darling, which it very much is.
...As I stated before, it seems to me that people are referring to the fact that it doesn't specialize or stand out in any particular area, whether that be economic, cultural, political, etc.--which isn't the same as saying that it's boring, or Anyplace USA, or a bad place to live at all.
Yeah I didn't take it that way. That said, I still disagree. Tampa is known for all the things I listed. Economically, finance and healthcare is broad, so it's hard to "claim" that. Charlotte can only claim banking because it's a banking HQ mecca. San Jose can claim tech because it's a tech mecca, even though tech is growing all over the country. Tampa has cigars and pirates as "landmarks" the same way St Louis has breweries as you say. If someone in Oregon doesn't know that, eh it's whatever.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Also, people aren't saying that Tampa is unique in this regard as there are other cities for which this is true. When it comes to Tampa though, its so-called "underachiever" status tells me two things: 1) That it got to its present size and status without really even trying particularly hard means it didn't actually have to.
Yeah, not really. Tampa has always been #1 in the region and Hillsborough has grown faster than Pinellas for the most part. Pinellas declined 0.5% in 2010, Hillsborough grew 23.1%, with Pasco taking some thunder. Hillsborough by far has the largest employment base in the region. Pinellas is back growing again, but Hillsborough was still the only county in Florida to grow at least 20k in 2019, even though it's 4th in population.
Like every other big city, Tampa only grew because it grew in economics. Like every other sunbelt city, jobs expanded wild. Not sure how you can say Tampa has grown without effort. All those jobs that ended up in Tampa could have easily went elsewhere in Florida, especially 90 minutes northeast. All cities have to "try." I've never heard of one that hasnt. Amazon didn't pick NY just because it's sitting there. NYC "tried" to lure them, with incentives, like the other hundred cities that applied.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Although its individual/local brand isn't all that strong
Tampa has a good brand, that's strong especially locally and regionally, and it can and does operate independent of St Pete. Again, as an example, Tom Brady. It was "he's headed to Tampa!", "will he succeed in Tampa?" Only time people would say "Tampa Bay" was if they were saying "Buccaneers" since "Tampa Bucs" rightfully sounds weird.
Tampa is known for pirates/Gasparilla festival, cuisine, cigars, museums, Cuban influence, Busch Gardens, death metal, and if you're Florida local: the state fair, USF, manatees, the AFB, and Ybor.
St Pete is known for it's hip downtown, liberal atmosphere (pride, etc), breweries, sandy beaches, art districts, Dali Museum, and the Grand Prix, and if you're Florida local: Tropicana Field, Fort Desoto, and Sunshine Skyway. Both cities have their own brand. You've told me a lot of things I already know.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
2) If Tampa got to its current size and status without trying all that hard, what could it have been, or what could it be in the future,
I really don't know where you've gotten this from. No city can grow that big without trying. There's a reason Ocala is not Orlando and Lakeland is not Tampa.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
...if it put in some serious effort to become more economically competitive in specific sectors beyond tourism?
Again....Tampa's main specialty is healthcare. Along with it, you have finance, insurance, tourism, shipping, business, and information technology. I dont know what it is now, but from 2009 to 2016, Tampa was 4th in the US in job growth, and is still #1 in Florida in overall job growth and #1 in STEM growth. So the city is doing what it's supposed to. Microsoft is in Tampa. Most people dont know that.
There is no way Tampa would have been able to get to it's size just off tourism. Even Orlando has a more diverse economy than people think. Aerospace is just one area.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
...It would most certainly be a force to be reckoned with.
Sure. Though being #1 in Florida's major cities in terms of educational attainment, population growth, job growth, financial security, 2nd in per capita income, having the lowest crime rate, and having COL at the national average, I think Tampa will be fine. Matter of fact, Tampa has one of the best crime rates for a large US city period.
Research "Water Street Tampa." Billionaire Vinik and Bill Gates, yes Bill Gates, are currently building a junior downtown next to current downtown. The speed it has gone up is mighty impressive. The airport is consistently ranked top 5, and best midsize in the US, and a lot is still being invested into it. And it doesn't get a lot of talk on CD, but the Riverwalk is a gem that has spurred an explosion of projects around the core, from Sparkman Wharf to Straz to Armature to Water Works and Julian Lane. Google them.
The only thing Tampa really needed to go back in the time machine and fix more than anything is the road and rail transportation. I've read a lot of CD over the years, and the #1 thing I've seen people say about Tampa is "the skyline isn't as big as it should be." With what Tampa has going for it, who cares. LA's isn't either. But LA is still LA regardless.
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Originally Posted by Gaylord_Focker
I don't know why you put Austin as a darling. There was an Austin vs Raleigh post and someone put Raleigh down as more friendly for non-smokers despite the fact that Austin had already banned smoking in restaurants/bars well before Raleigh and that Raleigh is basically in tobacco country. Austin is not a darling here. Nashville, yes.
Austin gets a lot of CD hype because it's building a million skyscrapers and is high on the growth charts. It's def polarizing - I still remember some Austin vs KC thread that went crazy - but it's liked. But that's exactly my point. No reason to get worked up on CD comparisons because most times people don't do the research. They just give whatever they like more the benefit. You see it all the time.
19. St. Louis
20. Pittsburgh
21. Cleveland
22. Charlotte
23. Portland
24. Tampa
25. Austin
So, why aren't Cleveland, Charlotte, or Sacramento in this poll?
Cleveland+Akron (Akron is not in Cleveland's official MSA but it closely ties in) is quite massive (2.75M). CLE is also a legacy city, and served as one of the nation's largest and most important cities throughout most of the 19th and 20th centuries.
You want us to pick 6 cities but only provided 10 options (plus other)? Your OP is written so well but this poll is just... Unfair and definitely not providing enough choices. Not trying to be rude, but why didn't you include more options?
Nashville is not even in my top 30. Probably #33. However, Nashville is a fast rising star and could very easily make top 30 within the decade given its momentum and fast growth. San Jose is lumped with SF at #5. Baltimore is not with DC and it is #18 IMO.
My list 20-23 are VERY close together. Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Charlotte, Portland are all close peers. I generally would not object to reordering them in some fashion.
Edit: again not trying to be rude or attacking. Always enjoy intellectual discussion!
I would add Charlotte for sure but people who think of Austin as like Nashville or Portland or Pittsburgh haven't been to the Texas capital city the last ten years. 25 to 30 years ago, Austin was the size of Charlotte, Raleigh, Portland and Nashville. While all those cities have grown, Austin has far outpaced them in population and GDP growth.
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