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I'm surprised not to see more mention of Cincinnati; while the metro doesn't have the large feel of Cleveland or Detroit, the city itself is very dense with row housing and 19th century buildings. It was dense enough to warrant construction of an underground subway system (halted by the Great Depression) which would've only been the second in the Midwest after Chicago.
Cincinnati has much too small of an urban core.
It’s CBD, OTR, And the Basin in general is urban but it’s like 2 sq miles.
Cincinnati as a whole was never really that large. The Subway plans were laid as a response to Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh etc surpassing Cincinnati as the Rivertowns slipped behind the Northern industrial powerhouses.
Last edited by btownboss4; 05-25-2020 at 09:07 AM..
St. Louis had a number of plans in the works for a comprehensive subway system dating back to 1919 (then the 4th largest city in the US), but various obstacles kept “derailing” them. If it had materialized, it would have been very similar to the Boston and Philly transit network.
St. Louis had a number of plans in the works for a comprehensive subway system dating back to 1919 (then the 4th largest city in the US), but various obstacles kept “derailing” them. If it had materialized, it would have been very similar to the Boston and Philly transit network.
It is cool that MetroLink currently uses a lot of the preexisting tunnels and rights of way that the proposed subway would have also used.
Is that what accounts for MetroLink's wiggly routing once it goes west in downtown?
Also, if it takes about 2,000 feet for I-44 to go up from below-grade and capped to above-grade to a bride crossing, then it seems like I-64 should be able to go below grade and capped from around where Busch Stadium is going on west. Have there been any proposals to do such?
It’s CBD, OTR, And the Basin in general is urban but it’s like 2 sq miles.
Cincinnati as a whole was never really that large. The Subway plans were laid as a response to Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh etc surpassing Cincinnati as the Rivertowns slipped behind the Northern industrial powerhouses.
All five of those cities had plans for rapid transit and/or trolley subways dating as far back as 1911 in Pittsburgh's case.
Only Pittsburgh and Cleveland ever got around to completing them. Cincinnati started one but did not finish it. Detroit built the downtown people mover but not the Woodward Avenue subway that was supposed to feed it. I guess the QLine is the consolation prize.
St. Louis had a number of plans in the works for a comprehensive subway system dating back to 1919 (then the 4th largest city in the US), but various obstacles kept “derailing” them. If it had materialized, it would have been very similar to the Boston and Philly transit network.
It is cool that MetroLink currently uses a lot of the preexisting tunnels and rights of way that the proposed subway would have also used.
St. Louis MetroLink is also one of the few LRT systems to have been built since San Diego's highly successful one to wholly merit the term I use for lower-capacity light-rail systems that operate like rapid transit: "light metro."
St. Louis MetroLink is also one of the few LRT systems to have been built since San Diego's highly successful one to wholly merit the term I use for lower-capacity light-rail systems that operate like rapid transit: "light metro."
The others that fit the definition of “light metro” are Seattle and...which other US cities?
The others that fit the definition of “light metro” are Seattle and...which other US cities?
Buffalo, Dallas and San Diego, all almost.
All three cities have LRT systems that function like rapid transit outside the city center but run at grade in the stress within that center. (Buffalo's is unusual that it runs in a subway outside the city center but at grade down a reserved median in it.)
Dallas plans to build a downtown subway for its LRT to ease congestion on the surface streets down which it runs.
The Newark City Subway in New Jersey also qualifies fully. It's older than any of these, having opened in 1937.
When I read the headline I thought ok Milwaukee will be #1 or #2 but when I saw MSP in there I thought? I take it no one has been to Milwaukee? I like the twin cities but to me they are too leafy green and sread out much like a suburb would be. I guess I prefer older buildings and more urban grit than the Twin Cities offer. Every building seems to have been built in the last 10 years there. It's got that whole new city feeling to me and new buildings today just suck, they all look the same. I know this is good thing but the twin cities just seem to clean and organzied, I now people are going to take that comment wrong but that's just kinda how I see it. I have often considered moving to the twin cities since I have a lot of friends up there, for urban living it seems well to soft urban. Milwaukee has a bit of an edge that I feel when I am in the neighborhoods and other areas outside of the popular areas of Milwaukee. Milwaukee's urban density blows away Minneapolis anyways. I would move the the twin cities for their fantastic western suburbs and the southern ones aren't bad either but I need a little more grit with my town.
Believe it or not (something I just learned of recently), St. Louis actually had plans to build 19-mile elevated train network, in 1883! Had this plan been even partially realized, St. Louis, not Chicago, would be America's 2nd rapid transit city and would have bested Chicago's L by several years (Chicago's South Side Rapid Transit Railway Co. opened in 1892 in segments, rushing to connect downtown with the coming World Colombian Exposition of 1893) ... The St. Louis elevated was to originate at 5th Street (now Broadway) and Walnut heading east along Walnut, then Forest Park Blvd terminating adjacent to the Park, traveling along the Park's northern edge (not unlike today's Metrolink LRT) near the city border with 2 branches: one to the North along 12th Street (apparently, now Tucker, then NW along Florissant Ave) and South, along Jefferson Ave.
Much like Chicago's initial 4 elevated companies, the St. Louis plan was drafted by local entrepreneurs impressed by New York City's fledgling elevate rapid transit system. This raised my respect level for St. Louis even more as, really, the Grand Dame of major Midwestern Cities. St. Louis was already well established by the Civil War, after which Chicago began its explosive expansion.
Anyway, here is the map and 1883 plus the very detailed proposal of the "St. Louis Elevated and Rapid Transit Railway Co" proposal:
I love Indy, but I admit, Grand Rapids completely blew me away. Charming city with so much to offer, and has more churches per capita than anywhere else in the United States.
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