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I disagree with some of this. Minneapolis looks and feels like a significantly larger city than Cleveland. Cleveland feels like a Kansas City or Indianapolis, both of which are larger metro areas. From the street, Minneapolis provides more walkability and cycle friendly areas. The immediate downtown, west broad, south end etc. all feel more vibrant than Cleveland with university circle being an exception. There are numerous parks and green space close by in safe neighborhoods.
Minneapolis' downtown is far from vibrant. I was there last year, and the streets were almost deserted. The bus stops had more people than the streets, and not that many were at the bus stops. People say, they have the sky walks, and that's why streets are deserted, but the sky walks were deserted, as well. I was shocked, to say the least. There is a problem with crime in downtown Minneapolis, and that has attributed to less people on the streets, I believe. Google it, there are articles. There's an article in the Star Tribune, about serious crime downtown spiking 70%. Not good.
Cleveland feels like a Kansas City or Indianapolis, both of which are larger metro areas.
This is complete nonsense and a total misnomer. Cleveland feels (and is, effectively,) a lot bigger than KC and Indianapolis. Urbanized area is the only practical metric when it comes to how big a city/metro feels, and Cleveland ranks #25, well ahead of both KC (31) and Indianapolis (33). KC and Indy feel like overgrown small towns; Cleveland has a mature and seasoned urban context. Sure, maybe those downtowns are more "vibrant" by current standards, but Cleveland feels like a big legacy city (same class as Detroit, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, etc), with all the infrastructure that comes with having been a top 10 city from 1890-1970. Sorry, KC and Indy don't even come close.
And Cleveland is the primary city in a CSA of some 4.5 million people, and that is important.
With this metric i would still say Cleveland is more urban, its people use transit more making MSP more of a car city compared to Cleveland. if you are talking about the vibe of the city there is no way Downtown Minneapolis has more of a big city vibe than Downtown Cleveland. Minneapolis has a skyway system that drastically cuts the foot traffic compared to Cleveland where there is more street store fronts instead of looking like a big office park. Minneapolis really only feels bigger than Cleveland is when there is a big event at the U.S Bank Stadium. and just like Minneapolis, Cleveland has its NBA, NFL and MLB team downtown.
Statistically that’s untrue. Per Capita Minneapolis has about 2x the transit usage of Cleveland.
And this also isn’t about just Downtown the whole city of Minneapolis is much much more urban than Cleveland.
People like to act like Rust Belt Cities are just like they were in 1960 but the neighborhoods have drastically emptied out. They really don’t have amenities in many neighborhoods that makes the neighborhoods urban.
This is complete nonsense and a total misnomer. Cleveland feels (and is, effectively,) a lot bigger than KC and Indianapolis. Urbanized area is the only practical metric when it comes to how big a city/metro feels, and Cleveland ranks #25, well ahead of both KC (31) and Indianapolis (33). KC and Indy feel like overgrown small towns; Cleveland has a mature and seasoned urban context. Sure, maybe those downtowns are more "vibrant" by current standards, but Cleveland feels like a big legacy city (same class as Detroit, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, etc), with all the infrastructure that comes with having been a top 10 city from 1890-1970. Sorry, KC and Indy don't even come close.
And Cleveland is the primary city in a CSA of some 4.5 million people, and that is important.
I agree that Cleveland has stronger urban 'bones' than Indy or KCMO, but "urbanized area" doesn't really mean much. It should really be called "suburbanized area."
Statistically that’s untrue. Per Capita Minneapolis has about 2x the transit usage of Cleveland.
And this also isn’t about just Downtown the whole city of Minneapolis is much much more urban than Cleveland.
People like to act like Rust Belt Cities are just like they were in 1960 but the neighborhoods have drastically emptied out. They really don’t have amenities in many neighborhoods that makes the neighborhoods urban.
I posted some pics of Milwaukee you should look at. Many neighborhoods that are urban.
This is complete nonsense and a total misnomer. Cleveland feels (and is, effectively,) a lot bigger than KC and Indianapolis. Urbanized area is the only practical metric when it comes to how big a city/metro feels, and Cleveland ranks #25, well ahead of both KC (31) and Indianapolis (33). KC and Indy feel like overgrown small towns; Cleveland has a mature and seasoned urban context. Sure, maybe those downtowns are more "vibrant" by current standards, but Cleveland feels like a big legacy city (same class as Detroit, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, etc), with all the infrastructure that comes with having been a top 10 city from 1890-1970. Sorry, KC and Indy don't even come close.
And Cleveland is the primary city in a CSA of some 4.5 million people, and that is important.
Thank you. FYI, Shakeesha is a longtime Cleveland hater.
The question asked about "the most urban character," not "the most population density." They're not the same thing, as I'm sure you know.
I've been to Milwaukee once, and the areas I was in (outside of downtown and around the Miller factory) weren't all that urban. It was primarily made up of single-family housing and I didn't see any walkable retail districts.
That said, I grant you it was merely an impression based on one visit. I'm willing to be proven otherwise.
The Miller "factory" is in a long industrial corridor that extends for miles west of downtown. Mostly factories, rail yards, etc. Had you ventured a mile or so north or south of that corridor, you would've found yourself in neighborhoods chock-a-block with the city's ubiquitous 2-story duplexes situated on narrow lots: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0501...7i16384!8i8192
Minneapolis' downtown is far from vibrant. I was there last year, and the streets were almost deserted. The bus stops had more people than the streets, and not that many were at the bus stops. People say, they have the sky walks, and that's why streets are deserted, but the sky walks were deserted, as well. I was shocked, to say the least. There is a problem with crime in downtown Minneapolis, and that has attributed to less people on the streets, I believe. Google it, there are articles.
LOL! Downtown Minneapolis is on another level when compared to the likes of Milwaukee, St Louis, Cleveland, Grand Rapids, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and Kansas City
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean
There's an article in the Star Tribune, about serious crime downtown spiking 70%. Not good.
LOL! Downtown Minneapolis is on another level when compared to the likes of Milwaukee, St Louis, Cleveland, Grand Rapids, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and Kansas City
Yet more companies and people are moving downtown Minneapolis and there are more attractions than ever.
I've lived in Milwaukee, and been to downtown Minneapolis (numerous times). I see, in downtown Minneapolis, streets that are barren of people....try to convince someone other than me, as I said, I've been there. (Oh, and Google downtown Minneapolis crime). BTW, the barren streets I speak of, were before the crime increase. I can't imagine how it is, now.
Last edited by Enean; 05-20-2020 at 05:43 AM..
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