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Milwaukee, definitely. Square mile after square mile of dense, walkable, urban neighborhoods with alleys and 2-3 story commercial buildings along arterials (built right up to sidewalk). The entire East Side, Bay View and large areas of the South Side and West Side have pre-World War II urban density (unfortunately, the North Side now has a large number of vacant lots). Milwaukee has, by far, the highest concentration of duplexes (as a percentage of all dwellings) of any large city in the nation (with Chicago a distant second). This is a legacy of its immigrant heritage and contributes greatly to its density and urban character.
Milwaukee, definitely. Square mile after square mile of dense, walkable, urban neighborhoods with alleys and 2-3 story commercial buildings along arterials (built right up to sidewalk). The entire East Side, Bay View and large areas of the South Side and West Side have pre-World War II urban density (unfortunately, the North Side now has a large number of vacant lots). Milwaukee has, by far, the highest concentration of duplexes (as a percentage of all dwellings) of any large city in the nation (with Chicago a distant second). This is a legacy of its immigrant heritage and contributes greatly to its density and urban character.
uhh... do you have any hard evidence to back up these claims? Milwaukee has some character, sure, but it is in no way the most urban of all the cities on this list, not by a longshot.
uhh... do you have any hard evidence to back up these claims? Milwaukee has some character, sure, but it is in no way the most urban of all the cities on this list, not by a longshot.
Density and urbanity go hand in hand. As you saw, Milwaukee is the most dense in the Midwest, after Chicago and Minneapolis.
Density and urbanity go hand in hand. As you saw, Milwaukee is the most dense in the Midwest, after Chicago and Minneapolis.
Maybe population density, but not structural density. St. Louis's urban fabric is more tightly packed than Milwaukee, and no, it's not "mostly vacant" like many people love to suggest.
Maybe population density, but not structural density. St. Louis's urban fabric is more tightly packed than Milwaukee, and no, it's not "mostly vacant" like many people love to suggest.
I posted density numbers for Milwaukee's most dense neighborhoods. One of them was almost 27,000 psm. Don't kid yourself, that Milwaukee isn't dense.
Maybe population density, but not structural density. St. Louis's urban fabric is more tightly packed than Milwaukee, and no, it's not "mostly vacant" like many people love to suggest.
Businesses serve people not buildings. As a result a place like Milwaukee or Minneapolis needs more things/sq mile to sustain its population and since they’re basically all built on the same grid with similar built forms that means you can reach more stuff by foot or bike in the average Minneapolis neighborhood and Milwaukee neighborhood than St Louis or Cleveland one.
Having a density of 4800 ppsm bs 7800ppsm or 6500ppsm makes a huge difference in how functionally urban a place is even if athstetically St Louis is very urban.
Businesses serve people not buildings. As a result a place like Milwaukee or Minneapolis needs more things/sq mile to sustain its population and since they’re basically all built on the same grid with similar built forms that means you can reach more stuff by foot or bike in the average Minneapolis neighborhood and Milwaukee neighborhood than St Louis or Cleveland one.
Having a density of 4800 ppsm bs 7800ppsm or 6500ppsm makes a huge difference in how functionally urban a place is even if athstetically St Louis is very urban.
First of all, I never said Milwaukee didn’t have density, I said it isn’t as tightly packed as St. Louis which is true. And though population density does matter, so does sustained population density. So maybe Milwaukee has more stuff per capita in a more compact area than other cities, but it isn’t enough to really support viable rail transit, which both Cleveland and St. Louis have. Rail transit is a quintessential component of any urban experience.
Maybe population density, but not structural density. St. Louis's urban fabric is more tightly packed than Milwaukee, and no, it's not "mostly vacant" like many people love to suggest.
I really like St. Louis, and it's one of about half of the city's listed here that I've actually spent more than a few days in. I think Central West End and Delmar Loop are fantastic neighborhoods while there are also some very promising other neighborhoods. In several St. Louis neighborhoods outside of those two neighborhoods, I saw great deal of structural density in parts, but it gets really splotchy or disconnected pretty quickly. I'm guessing a good deal of the surface parking lots, vacant lots, and space taken up by highways and their ramps were formerly developed plots that had buildings that were as densely built in terms of amount of lot size developed and height that existing nearby buildings did. I think if far fewer of those buildings were removed, then St. Louis would come out easily on top, but the unfortunate thing is that in most neighborhoods I went to, you really don't need to go very far before you see vacant lots, surface parking lots, or freeways and their ramps.
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