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white supremacy and colorism isn't exclusive to any continent or country. Hell, I found it common in Senegal. Many of the nail salons and shop in that country have 'billboards' painted by locals and even though nearly everyone there is ebony black, the paintings/billboards feature tannish/mocha colored people..very conspicuous. America and not even African-Americans are not immune to this.
Having more non-white people around usually feels more comfortable to me as a black person than a ton of white people and a few African Americans. It's not like being surrounded by other black people but its much more natural feeling. Obviously this doesnt apply to ATL DAL HOU ...but id rather be in Seattle than Nashua, NH.
Black people tend to flock to the south because they have family there, it's affordable and it comes with added black social capital/prestige and access to black capital. Is it inherently more comfortable? Perhaps, maybe those things equate to comfortability. If anythign i thionk its just practical.
Black guy here who lives in Austin, has lived in Dallas (5 years) and grew up in Raleigh-Durham. Here is the thing Black People, whether they are African-american or Caribbean american or from elsewhere european, african, latin generally move for the same reasons everyone else. One big thing is word of mouth and simply put places where there are already lots of black people will automatically gain more if those living there like it as people will move due to the advice of family friends. A good case of this is Atlanta which has long been a great city for black people. In the last 10 to 15 years Dallas/Ft Worth, Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte, and several others have become popular. And for the record Raleigh-Durham was never really that white like some of the other cities mentioned as Durham had a large black population city since forever.
The techie industry isn't super popular for black people it's true but I don't think it's the main reason black people don't pick the Seattle's, and Salt Lake Cities of the Country. I'm in engineering and can kind of go anywhere. The main reason especially for the youth is recreation with similar minded people. Cities like Atlanta, DC, Chicago, NYC, Houston are going to have tons or restaurants, bars, museums, concerts, etc. that revolve around black culture. Cities like Denver, Austin, Seattle just don't have as much of that going on. The recreation in those cities for black people would come from diverse friend groups and outdoorsy things, or immersing oneself in other cultural type things that are not inherently "blackish" and that's not always easy and it's harder to relate for some black people. Black people who grew up in suburbia are way more likely to jump to the outliers like Austin, Denver, SLC, Seattle etc. than say those used to a more urban black experience.
Just my 2 cents.
Pretty much, even though the Suburbia and Urban experience is somewhat outdated since Blacks have become more suburbanized in this country due to gentrification. But yes, Black people that tend to grow up in predominantly White areas probably on average find those cities more appealing than Black folks use to growing up around a lot of Black folks.
If people want to understand why by and large Black people don’t find White Liberal destinations as appealing as their counterparts I suggest reading a book by Damon Young entitled : What doesn’t kill you makes you Blacker. It’s based on his experiences growing up in Pittsburgh. And I think he even mentioned Denver in one of his chapters as well.
Honestly Austin is just a reflection of White Liberals and their relationship with Black people in this country anyway. It’s a complicated frustrated relationship. With the conservative right wing White American, you know where you stand generally with them. It’s a generalization but living in a conservative suburb, there’s certain spaces that you automatically can tell your not welcomed in. Cities like Austin have those liberal spaces with a lot of appropriation going on. A Korean Taco fusion food truck called Biggie Smalls tacos playing Kendrick Lamar in the background while the “progressive” woke White LGBTQ owners greet you with smiles. They’re doing their part because they hired a Mexican worker who has the most authentic tacos North of the border. And you as a Black tourist get comfortable because of the music only to have some random person come up to you and say “ Can you teach us how to do the whoa? ”
Pretty much, even though the Suburbia and Urban experience is somewhat outdated since Blacks have become more suburbanized in this country due to gentrification. But yes, Black people that tend to grow up in predominantly White areas probably on average find those cities more appealing than Black folks use to growing up around a lot of Black folks.
If people want to understand why by and large Black people don’t find White Liberal destinations as appealing as their counterparts I suggest reading a book by Damon Young entitled : What doesn’t kill you makes you Blacker. It’s based on his experiences growing up in Pittsburgh. And I think he even mentioned Denver in one of his chapters as well.
Honestly Austin is just a reflection of White Liberals and their relationship with Black people in this country anyway. It’s a complicated frustrated relationship. With the conservative right wing White American, you know where you stand generally with them. It’s a generalization but living in a conservative suburb, there’s certain spaces that you automatically can tell your not welcomed in. Cities like Austin have those liberal spaces with a lot of appropriation going on. A Korean Taco fusion food truck called Biggie Smalls tacos playing Kendrick Lamar in the background while the “progressive” woke White LGBTQ owners greet you with smiles. They’re doing their part because they hired a Mexican worker who has the most authentic tacos North of the border. And you as a Black tourist get comfortable because of the music only to have some random person come up to you and say “ Can you teach us how to do the whoa? ”
Lol that’s sort of the relationship
One thing to me is incredibly obvious: there is a massive gap in the way white people view Austin vs. how black people view it. Same with Portland and Denver. SLC is its own thing because of the Later Day Saints. The whole point of this thread was to dive into why that is the case. Its obviously true, its impossible to miss without burying ones head in the sand so to deny it is ridiculous.
Why are the ways African American view Austin (and Denver/Portland) vs. how white people view Austin (and Denver/Portland) completely inverse?
dont black people generally like Denver?..like when theyre there. It's just not very black and doesn't have black neighborhoods really. I went to Denver and thought it was okay-nothing special, felt predominately white but pretty diverese... Nice to visit Colorado, but thats it.
As far as black culture/presence Denver is easily above Portland....
One thing to me is incredibly obvious: there is a massive gap in the way white people view Austin vs. how black people view it. Same with Portland and Denver. SLC is its own thing because of the Later Day Saints. The whole point of this thread was to dive into why that is the case. Its obviously true, its impossible to miss without burying ones head in the sand so to deny it is ridiculous.
Why are the ways African American view Austin (and Denver/Portland) vs. how white people view Austin (and Denver/Portland) completely inverse?
The black people I've talked to seem to enjoy Austin as a place to visit at least.
I also think that some people mistakenly think that Austin is extremely white because they only saw people at the places they want to that cater to mostly white interests.
Round Rock and Pflugerville seemed more integrated to me, too. At least the places I was at.
The black people I've talked to seem to enjoy Austin as a place to visit at least.
I also think that some people mistakenly think that Austin is extremely white because they only saw people at the places they want to that cater to mostly white interests.
Round Rock and Pflugerville seemed more integrated to me, too. At least the places I was at.
Most Black people I know including myself really enjoy Austin. It's not a bad city despite it's shortcomings when it comes to Black culture. Same can be said for Denver and Seattle as well. Not to familiar with SLC or Portland at all. On the flip side I love going to cities like New Orleans but I would never live there. I would actually choose Austin over New Orleans despite N.O. having a clear advantage over Austin when it comes to Black culture. It's a difference though when we talk about choosing to reside in these places versus just visiting.
With that said Often times I feel major media outlets always get the perspective of White Americans when it comes to their favorite cities or vacation spots. So they create these list that cater mostly to White Americans and people end up reading these list and in turn start to puff out their chest as if these list are the gospel.
The top 10 best places to live in America:
1.Austin
2.Denver
3.Colorado Springs
4.Fayetteville
5.Des Moines
6.Minneapolis-St.Paul
7.San Francisco
8.Portland
9.Seattle
10.Raleigh
Now if we asked a Black publication to compile a list of the 50 best places to live for African Americans that top 10 list would look completely different. And I'm pretty sure that goes for every other ethnic group in this country. America offers completely different experiences for different ethnic groups depending on what part of the country you live in. I just wish these culturally biased publications would acknowledge and based these list off of that instead of using the general White American's preference as the standard for what's the best.
Oh and Round Rock and Pflugerville are more diverse or definitely feel that way. North Austin closest to those suburbs is more diverse as well. The Domain which is located in North Austin is clearly the most diverse social setting in the entire metro.
dont black people generally like Denver?..like when theyre there. It's just not very black and doesn't have black neighborhoods really. I went to Denver and thought it was okay-nothing special, felt predominately white but pretty diverese... Nice to visit Colorado, but thats it.
As far as black culture/presence Denver is easily above Portland....
Given that Denver has had 2 black mayors from the community(both went to Manual High, a formerly predominantly black HS)within the past 30 years, I’d say so. 5 Points used to be the neighborhood and the Welton Street area of the neighborhood still has a pretty visible black presence. Park Hill is actually predominantly black in parts. Chauncey Billups is from that neighborhood, for those familiar with the NBA. Former NBA Micheal Ray Richardson and the 90’s music group Tag Team also went to Manual. Same for the first black mayor of Seattle. Schools such as George Washington and East were historically schools with higher black percentages.
This doesn’t get into adjacent Aurora, which has a higher black percentage.
So, while the percentage between those 2 cities is around the national percentage, there is definitely a black presence in parts of both of those cities.
I haven't completely read the thread either, but in defense of "As Above So Below", as someone who's now spent 2 years at UT this is an anecdote but, 6 of my 10-15 closest friends are Hispanic or of Hispanic heritage, 3 are half-white/ half-Hispanic (Two Mexican the other from a Colombia), 1 is a Venezuelan who's entire family's from Italy. 1 is half Bolivian half Venezuelan. The last one has a Mexican grandma.
Non of them are from Austin however.
If all of my friends and me were together out of the group I mentioned not a single one looks "American stereotyped" version of a Latino. 1 of them (The one with a Mexican Grandma) is basically white all the way through the rest though identify as Hispanic are in Hispanic org etcetera, only 1 has a Spanish last name.
The crazy thing is if I expand it to Hispanic acquaintances, I might no 8-12 "lightskin" Hispanic folks till I reach someone who's the "stereotypical brown latino/latina".
I know this is a more controversial topic, but it is said that at the elite institutions of Latin America more "white American-passing" Latinos are often seen, same with Telenovas and the like, and while of the people I've mentioned all of them (except for the 1/8th Mexican one of course) are proud Latinos, all of them do acknowledge that at some point that many people have just of the bat assumed their white. A lot of this is due to having longer roots in America than many other Mexican groups, yes i'm talking Tejanos. I think the presence of more Tejanos leads to these areas seeming whiter than they are. Even in San Antonio which is Mexican dominated it's historically been around 30%+ Mexican since Texas became a state. Living in Houston I know lots of Tejanos and half white hispanic folk, but the presence of FOB or even 2nd Generation Hispanics allows the city to feel more Latino than
So I think the fact that Central Texas and South Texas, is the home of much of the Tejano community has integrated to a certain level with the white community, and in many of these communities lots of half-white, half-Hispanic folk exist making the area seem visually and culturally "whiter" than it actually is.
Houston and Dallas has more FOB-y people who are more connected to their culture. I think this number is reflected partially in the amount of people who identify as a white-hispanic to an extent. Of course some of these border areas have large Tejano and FOB populations so it isn't a direct correlation but as you move away from the border and the historic Tejano communities the percent that identify as white decline, and compare these numbers across Texas to California it's a completely different view, as California had a much smaller Mexican population before becoming a U.S State. It could also just be a different region of Mexico as well, but I think my Hypothesis would bear fruit if you compared somewhere like Southern Colorado and Northern New Mexico and the percent that identify as White Hispanic.
McAllen- 91%
Brownsville- 94%
Corpus Christi- 90%
El Paso- 86%
Victoria- 86%
San Antonio- 83%
Austin- 79%
Houston- 77%
Dallas- 76%
Lubbock- 73%
San Diego- 73%
El Centro- 70%
Riverside- 60%
Fresno- 59%
Los Angeles- 55%
San Jose- 54%
Vallejo- 53%
San Francisco- 51%
I think the above plays into why a heavily white/hispanic city in Texas at least might seem more culturally white than the same in California while not necessarily looking more white, Austin is even more likely because not only is there the Tejano population it's also home to UT, it's more likely to represent wealthier college-educated Hispanic folks which tend to lean into "whiter-looking", although their still culturally Hispanic.
TL;DR
Austin is where, the "white" upper class Hispanic migrants go for University, as well as having a large culturally "whiter" Tejano population compared to Dallas and Houston. San Antonio is just so heavily Hispanic even though it has both of these factors to a certain extent, their's still plenty of "stereotypical Hispanic folk".
I used a lot of quotations, because i'm not good with words and much of this is an anecdotal evidence rather than factual so it's easy to offend when talking about race, but staying at UT and Houston to some extent has really opened my eyes to how everyone and anyone can be Hispanic, of course I knew before but it's one thing to see the diversity in the Latino community.
Last edited by NigerianNightmare; 06-09-2020 at 08:53 PM..
That's possible but when I was in Austin and Pflugerville/Round Rock, there was an obviously high non-white Hispanic population.
BtW Pflugerville is the most diverse town in the Greater Austin area including Austin. Round Rock is likely number 2. So judging Austin of Pflugerville-Round Rock isn't gonna give you the most "accurate" representation of the greater area.
Austin though as a result of being in Texas has much more diverse suburbs than most over cities across the country. Places like San Marcos, Kyle, Buda, Bastrop, Taylor, Hutto. Manor, Elgin, Georgetown are decently diverse, albeit predominantly 2 races (Hispanic/White).
Last edited by NigerianNightmare; 06-09-2020 at 09:22 PM..
I haven't completely read the thread either, but in defense of "As Above So Below", as someone who's now spent 2 years at UT this is an anecdote but, 6 of my 10-15 closest friends are Hispanic or of Hispanic heritage, 3 are half-white/ half-Hispanic (Two Mexican the other from a Colombia), 1 is a Venezuelan who's entire family's from Italy. 1 is half Bolivian half Venezuelan. The last one has a Mexican grandma.
Non of them are from Austin however.
If all of my friends and me were together out of the group I mentioned not a single one looks "American stereotyped" version of a Latino. 1 of them (The one with a Mexican Grandma) is basically white all the way through the rest though identify as Hispanic are in Hispanic org etcetera, only 1 has a Spanish last name.
The crazy thing is if I expand it to Hispanic acquaintances, I might no 8-12 "lightskin" Hispanic folks till I reach someone who's the "stereotypical brown latino/latina".
I know this is a more controversial topic, but it is said that at the elite institutions of Latin America more "white American-passing" Latinos are often seen, same with Telenovas and the like, and while of the people I've mentioned all of them (except for the 1/8th Mexican one of course) are proud Latinos, all of them do acknowledge that at some point that many people have just of the bat assumed their white. A lot of this is due to having longer roots in America than many other Mexican groups, yes i'm talking Tejanos. I think the presence of more Tejanos leads to these areas seeming whiter than they are. Even in San Antonio which is Mexican dominated it's historically been around 30%+ Mexican since Texas became a state. Living in Houston I know lots of Tejanos and half white hispanic folk, but the presence of FOB or even 2nd Generation Hispanics allows the city to feel more Latino than
So I think the fact that Central Texas and South Texas, is the home of much of the Tejano community has integrated to a certain level with the white community, and in many of these communities lots of half-white, half-Hispanic folk exist making the area seem visually and culturally "whiter" than it actually is.
Houston and Dallas has more FOB-y people who are more connected to their culture. I think this number is reflected partially in the amount of people who identify as a white-hispanic to an extent. Of course some of these border areas have large Tejano and FOB populations so it isn't a direct correlation but as you move away from the border and the historic Tejano communities the percent that identify as white decline, and compare these numbers across Texas to California it's a completely different view, as California had a much smaller Mexican population before becoming a U.S State. It could also just be a different region of Mexico as well, but I think my Hypothesis would bear fruit if you compared somewhere like Southern Colorado and Northern New Mexico and the percent that identify as White Hispanic.
McAllen- 91%
Brownsville- 94%
Corpus Christi- 90%
El Paso- 86%
Victoria- 86%
San Antonio- 83%
Austin- 79%
Houston- 77%
Dallas- 76%
Lubbock- 73%
San Diego- 73%
El Centro- 70%
Riverside- 60%
Fresno- 59%
Los Angeles- 55%
San Jose- 54%
Vallejo- 53%
San Francisco- 51%
I think the above plays into why a heavily white/hispanic city in Texas at least might seem more culturally white than the same in California while not necessarily looking more white, Austin is even more likely because not only is there the Tejano population it's also home to UT, it's more likely to represent wealthier college-educated Hispanic folks which tend to lean into "whiter-looking", although their still culturally Hispanic.
TL;DR
Austin is where, the "white" upper class Hispanic migrants go for University, as well as having a large culturally "whiter" Tejano population compared to Dallas and Houston. San Antonio is just so heavily Hispanic even though it has both of these factors to a certain extent, their's still plenty of "stereotypical Hispanic folk".
I used a lot of quotations, because i'm not good with words and much of this is an anecdotal evidence rather than factual so it's easy to offend when talking about race, but staying at UT and Houston to some extent has really opened my eyes to how everyone and anyone can be Hispanic, of course I knew before but it's one thing to see the diversity in the Latino community.
I wouldn't judge by identifying as white on the census, they do that because they can't just pick Hispanic.
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