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I haven't completely read the thread either, but in defense of "As Above So Below", as someone who's now spent 2 years at UT this is an anecdote but, 6 of my 10-15 closest friends are Hispanic or of Hispanic heritage, 3 are half-white/ half-Hispanic (Two Mexican the other from a Colombia), 1 is a Venezuelan who's entire family's from Italy. 1 is half Bolivian half Venezuelan. The last one has a Mexican grandma.
Non of them are from Austin however.
If all of my friends and me were together out of the group I mentioned not a single one looks "American stereotyped" version of a Latino. 1 of them (The one with a Mexican Grandma) is basically white all the way through the rest though identify as Hispanic are in Hispanic org etcetera, only 1 has a Spanish last name.
The crazy thing is if I expand it to Hispanic acquaintances, I might no 8-12 "lightskin" Hispanic folks till I reach someone who's the "stereotypical brown latino/latina".
I know this is a more controversial topic, but it is said that at the elite institutions of Latin America more "white American-passing" Latinos are often seen, same with Telenovas and the like, and while of the people I've mentioned all of them (except for the 1/8th Mexican one of course) are proud Latinos, all of them do acknowledge that at some point that many people have just of the bat assumed their white. A lot of this is due to having longer roots in America than many other Mexican groups, yes i'm talking Tejanos. I think the presence of more Tejanos leads to these areas seeming whiter than they are. Even in San Antonio which is Mexican dominated it's historically been around 30%+ Mexican since Texas became a state. Living in Houston I know lots of Tejanos and half white hispanic folk, but the presence of FOB or even 2nd Generation Hispanics allows the city to feel more Latino than
So I think the fact that Central Texas and South Texas, is the home of much of the Tejano community has integrated to a certain level with the white community, and in many of these communities lots of half-white, half-Hispanic folk exist making the area seem visually and culturally "whiter" than it actually is.
Houston and Dallas has more FOB-y people who are more connected to their culture. I think this number is reflected partially in the amount of people who identify as a white-hispanic to an extent. Of course some of these border areas have large Tejano and FOB populations so it isn't a direct correlation but as you move away from the border and the historic Tejano communities the percent that identify as white decline, and compare these numbers across Texas to California it's a completely different view, as California had a much smaller Mexican population before becoming a U.S State. It could also just be a different region of Mexico as well, but I think my Hypothesis would bear fruit if you compared somewhere like Southern Colorado and Northern New Mexico and the percent that identify as White Hispanic.
McAllen- 91%
Brownsville- 94%
Corpus Christi- 90%
El Paso- 86%
Victoria- 86%
San Antonio- 83%
Austin- 79%
Houston- 77%
Dallas- 76%
Lubbock- 73%
San Diego- 73%
El Centro- 70%
Riverside- 60%
Fresno- 59%
Los Angeles- 55%
San Jose- 54%
Vallejo- 53%
San Francisco- 51%
I think the above plays into why a heavily white/hispanic city in Texas at least might seem more culturally white than the same in California while not necessarily looking more white, Austin is even more likely because not only is there the Tejano population it's also home to UT, it's more likely to represent wealthier college-educated Hispanic folks which tend to lean into "whiter-looking", although their still culturally Hispanic.
TL;DR
Austin is where, the "white" upper class Hispanic migrants go for University, as well as having a large culturally "whiter" Tejano population compared to Dallas and Houston. San Antonio is just so heavily Hispanic even though it has both of these factors to a certain extent, their's still plenty of "stereotypical Hispanic folk".
I used a lot of quotations, because i'm not good with words and much of this is an anecdotal evidence rather than factual so it's easy to offend when talking about race, but staying at UT and Houston to some extent has really opened my eyes to how everyone and anyone can be Hispanic, of course I knew before but it's one thing to see the diversity in the Latino community.
Exactly why I always say the hispanic populations of various states are totally different...this is a whole dynamic white/Latino dynamic that doesn’t even exist in the northeast.
BtW Pflugerville is the most diverse town in the Greater Austin area including Austin. Round Rock is likely number 2. So judging Austin of Pflugerville-Round Rock isn't gonna give you the most "accurate" representation of the greater area.
Austin though as a result of being in Texas has much more diverse suburbs than most over cities across the country. Places like San Marcos, Kyle, Buda, Bastrop, Taylor, Hutto. Manor, Elgin, Georgetown are decently diverse, albeit predominantly 2 races (Hispanic/White).
I know, I was just saying that it felt more integrated. Round Rock and Pflugerville are actually less Hispanic than Austin but I still felt like there was more white/Latino integration. At a bar there, I was playing pool and talking to white and Hispanic couples at the same time while in the "hip" parts of Austin I went to, it seemed a lot whiter in terms of nightlife crowd.
I wouldn't judge by identifying as white on the census, they do that because they can't just pick Hispanic.
But what causes the massive discrepancy between Texas and California. To me at least it isn't that Texas Hispanics look more white. I definitely think it has something to do with Tejano culture, Texas routinely stays in the 70-90% rate for nearly every city in the state, and California routinely stays in the 50-70% rate for every city in that state, you wouldn't expect to see a large discrepancy if their wasn't any cultural differences, would you? More Californian Mexicans feel much more comfortable identifying as other/mixed race than Texas, why is that? I definitely think Tejano culture or being from a different region of Mexico has something to do with it, or such a well defined consistent gap wouldn't exist. Even if my reason is wrong, their has to be something for their to be basically zero crossover from one state to another meaning the most "white-hispanic" city in California is the same or less so than the least "White-hispanic" city in Texas.
But what causes the massive discrepancy between Texas and California. To me at least it isn't that Texas Hispanics look more white. I definitely think it has something to do with Tejano culture, Texas routinely stays in the 70-90% rate for nearly every city in the state, and California routinely stays in the 50-70% rate for every city in that state, you wouldn't expect to see a large discrepancy if their wasn't any cultural differences, would you? More Californian Mexicans feel much more comfortable identifying as other/mixed race than Texas, why is that? I definitely think Tejano culture or being from a different region of Mexico has something to do with it, or such a well defined consistent gap wouldn't exist. Even if my reason is wrong, their has to be something for their to be basically zero crossover from one state to another meaning the most "white-hispanic" city in California is the same or less so than the least "White-hispanic" city in Texas.
I get what you're saying and think you could be right. California very likely has more "SJW" (for lack of better term) Hispanics who would never identify as white.
Texas also has way more Hispanics who are flat out right leaning.
Exactly why I always say the hispanic populations of various states are totally different...this is a whole dynamic white/Latino dynamic that doesn’t even exist in the northeast.
Is that really a dynamic, though? The white population is very low in most of the border towns.
And elsewhere in Texas like Houston, the Mexican-Americans are as culturally unwhite as say, Dominicans in Boston and The Bronx.
Why wouldnt African Americans find Austin, Denver, Portland, or Salt Lake City as appealing as even Phoenix or Orlando? You and I are not black so we cant answer, but others on here are. The idea is to get their take.
I think the factors are COL, History, Industries, Geography, & Appeal. The West constitutes the smallest percentage of my culture, historically & presently, and the L.A/Bay Area metros are the prominent influence for Western cities in the black community. Denver, Portland, & SLC black community are significant more or less for their states and rarely rotates in black conversations outside of the West. Most likely universities/colleges, military installations, business, & family will bring them to these places & not white liberal's openness/imagery per say. Not to dismiss those cities entirely as they do attracts black people just not in the same perspective as your viewing it.
Austin straddles the peripheral boundaries of black Texas base on geography in my perspective. Once you leave East/Southeast Texas then the decline in black population begins. I'm guessing certain educational institutions, certain industries & amenities attract modest size black transplants.
Like my felllow poster stated the South is the majority of our community and will remain that way. This is coming from a small town southern black and generally other small town southerners just moved to the nearest or significant southern metro based on career/educational attainment before leaving the South for other regions.
But what causes the massive discrepancy between Texas and California. To me at least it isn't that Texas Hispanics look more white. I definitely think it has something to do with Tejano culture, Texas routinely stays in the 70-90% rate for nearly every city in the state, and California routinely stays in the 50-70% rate for every city in that state, you wouldn't expect to see a large discrepancy if their wasn't any cultural differences, would you? More Californian Mexicans feel much more comfortable identifying as other/mixed race than Texas, why is that? I definitely think Tejano culture or being from a different region of Mexico has something to do with it, or such a well defined consistent gap wouldn't exist. Even if my reason is wrong, their has to be something for their to be basically zero crossover from one state to another meaning the most "white-hispanic" city in California is the same or less so than the least "White-hispanic" city in Texas.
I'm thinking it's due to different histories, settlements, & indigenous cultures.
I think the factors are COL, History, Industries, Geography, & Appeal. The West constitutes the smallest percentage of my culture, historically & presently, and the L.A/Bay Area metros are the prominent influence for Western cities in the black community. Denver, Portland, & SLC black community are significant more or less for their states and rarely rotates in black conversations outside of the West. Most likely universities/colleges, military installations, business, & family will bring them to these places & not white liberal's openness/imagery per say. Not to dismiss those cities entirely as they do attracts black people just not in the same perspective as your viewing it.
Austin straddles the peripheral boundaries of black Texas base on geography in my perspective. Once you leave East/Southeast Texas then the decline in black population begins. I'm guessing certain educational institutions, certain industries & amenities attract modest size black transplants.
Like my felllow poster stated the South is the majority of our community and will remain that way. This is coming from a small town southern black and generally other small town southerners just moved to the nearest or significant southern metro based on career/educational attainment before leaving the South for other regions.
Crazy thing about Austin is judging from it's history it should have had more of a Black presence than what it does now. Austin started out like other southern cities pre and post slavery leading into the reconstruction era. Austin's Black community was actually more prevalent in the state then Dallas from about the late 1800's-early 1900's. They do have one of the oldest HBCU's in the state of Texas. Hell Dallas didn't even birth a HBCU. The HBCU's they had came from other cities in Texas before settling in Dallas. Also Austin was adjacent to quite a few Freedman towns in between the city and Houston. Some migrated to Austin and others migrated to Houston.
The master plan of 1928 really impacted the growth of the Black population in Austin. Followed by the construction of Interstate 35 further separating an already displaced community of East Austin just destroyed any chance of Austin's Black populace looking similar to Texas cities in the Eastern half of the state.
And while Austin has made some slight progress it still continues the tradition of alienating Black people to really build something beyond minimal spaces in the city.
This title caught my interest! I think a better title may have been least black cities, though I'm white and not black so I'm not sure what the particular preference of most black people are.
For instance, San Francisco isn't majority white, but has a miniscule black % at only 5% while Pittsburgh, which has miniscule Hispanic and Asian populations is majority white, but has a much higher black % than San Francisco at 23%, and has a substantially higher total Black population as well 50,000 to 70,000, even though San Francisco has 3 times as many people.
Is that really a dynamic, though? The white population is very low in most of the border towns.
And elsewhere in Texas like Houston, the Mexican-Americans are as culturally unwhite as say, Dominicans in Boston and The Bronx.
Everything I’ve seen and read indicates that sometimes Tejanos and Cubans serve as stand in for the white population in their respective areas.
In general I find far more white influenced enced and light skin Hispanics further southwest/west and more FOB, recently arrived Hispanics in the south/southeast.
In the northeast there are a lot of Hispanics who one might think are black or light skinned black and there historically more aligned with African Americans politically and socially, that history counts.
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