White population of largest US and Canadian cities (1900-2010) - animated visualization (compared, America)
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Absolute numbers, including all cities that were in the top 10 in US/Canada by total population in any decade between 1900 and 2010 - hence the inclusion of cities that were small early on or later on.
Large cities mostly peaked for whites between 1930-1950s and have been on a slow decline since then as white people migrated away into the suburbs and nearby small towns. LA continued growing until the 1970s. Meanwhile, Canadian cities have been somewhat more successful at preserving their white population, so much so that only NYC still maintained a higher number of white people as of 2010.
Everyone knows about white flight, but I thought it might be curious to show just how huge it has been. For example, Cleveland in the 1940s used to have about as many white people in total as Chicago does now. Philly's white population is down from 1.7 million in 1930 to under 0.6 now, fewer than Baltimore or Pittsburgh had in 1930. Although some would say there was no real white flight because a lot have moved to the suburbs about 30 miles away, that is a fundamentally different experience from living in a city, with long-lasting political and cultural implications for the US (and the world).
What are your thoughts on the matter? Do you think this decline in white population was possible or even desirable to avoid, as in Canada up to a point? I'll make something like that for the black population a little later on.
Toronto was the whitest city. Interesting. I said this before on the Canadian forum and people got mad at me. Despite its diversity the city still feels very white compared to other major cities. Most Canadian cities do. I dont know why people got so upset over that. This video confirms it though.
Toronto was the whitest city. Interesting. I said this before on the Canadian forum and people got mad at me. Despite its diversity the city still feels very white compared to other major cities. Most Canadian cities do. I dont know why people got so upset over that. This video confirms it though.
I am actually quite shocked that Toronto had the largest white population of any Canadian city by the 1950s. Montreal was actually the largest city in Canada at that time and would remain so until 1980.
Huh. Would not have expected San Antonio to be losing white residents in the '60s and '70s, and Dallas for several decades.
San Antonio's whites are going up in the 70s though and stay at about the same level in the 60s. Have another look. It wasn't really losing them. It had about 268575 in 1970 and 297915 in 1980.
San Antonio was 56.5% non-Hispanic white in 1930, 41% non-Hispanic white in 1970, and 37.9% white in 1980, so the percentage of whites has been steadily decreasing. So their total numbers didn't go up that much and then fell even though the city grew.
Dallas has indeed been losing white people for several decades. Here are more details for Texan cities if you're interested.
Toronto was the whitest city. Interesting. I said this before on the Canadian forum and people got mad at me. Despite its diversity the city still feels very white compared to other major cities. Most Canadian cities do. I dont know why people got so upset over that. This video confirms it though.
It's still the whitest very large North American city except Montreal. It only lost the white majority after 2011, while NYC, Chicago, LA, Philly, Houston, etc. lost it a while ago.
Maybe its diversity is remarked upon because (1) other cities in Canada are even whiter, Montreal significantly so; (2) people inflate the numbers of every different group, but deflate the numbers of a single very large minority group; (3) a lot of non-white people in the US are half-American Indian, half-European Hispanics, but a small minority of Hispanics especially from Cuba are in fact European.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
I am actually quite shocked that Toronto had the largest white population of any Canadian city by the 1950s. Montreal was actually the largest city in Canada at that time and would remain so until 1980.
I was using current city limits for both since that's what a lot of other sources are doing, including the Americans. Toronto is pretty reasonably designated; it's no Phoenix. According to this, Toronto within its current boundaries overtook Montreal in 1961, when it had ~ 1 824 000 to Montreal's 1 608 000.
An interesting difference is that Montreal has much whiter suburbs compared to Toronto. For example, as of 2001, Montreal's CMA had about the same number of whites as Toronto's CMA (about 2 900 000). Moreover, they continue growing in Montreal, but are shrinking in Toronto. By now, Montreal's CMA actually has more total white people than Toronto CMA.
(not a visible minority - aboriginal identity = white/European) Toronto CMA: 2,850,950 - 73,975 = 2,776,975 Montreal CMA: 3,104,955 - 34,745 = 3,070,210
I wouldn't want to compare CMA's in general though. Montreal's is a sensible circle around it and Toronto's isn't too unreasonable, but many cities in the US make their CMAs and SMAs so big and sparsely populated they're more like countries.
San Antonio's whites are going up in the 70s though and stay at about the same level in the 60s. Have another look. It wasn't really losing them. It had about 268575 in 1970 and 297915 in 1980.
San Antonio was 56.5% non-Hispanic white in 1930, 41% non-Hispanic white in 1970, and 37.9% white in 1980, so the percentage of whites has been steadily decreasing. So their total numbers didn't go up that much and then fell even though the city grew.
Dallas has indeed been losing white people for several decades. Here are more details for Texan cities if you're interested.
It's still the whitest very large North American city except Montreal. It only lost the white majority after 2011, while NYC, Chicago, LA, Philly, Houston, etc. lost it a while ago.
Maybe its diversity is remarked upon because (1) other cities in Canada are even whiter, Montreal significantly so; (2) people inflate the numbers of every different group, but deflate the numbers of a single very large minority group; (3) a lot of non-white people in the US are half-American Indian, half-European Hispanics, but a small minority of Hispanics especially from Cuba are in fact European.
I was using current city limits for both since that's what a lot of other sources are doing, including the Americans. Toronto is pretty reasonably designated; it's no Phoenix. According to this, Toronto within its current boundaries overtook Montreal in 1961, when it had ~ 1 824 000 to Montreal's 1 608 000.
An interesting difference is that Montreal has much whiter suburbs compared to Toronto. For example, as of 2001, Montreal's CMA had about the same number of whites as Toronto's CMA (about 2 900 000). Moreover, they continue growing in Montreal, but are shrinking in Toronto. By now, Montreal's CMA actually has more total white people than Toronto CMA.
(not a visible minority - aboriginal identity = white/European) Toronto CMA: 2,850,950 - 73,975 = 2,776,975 Montreal CMA: 3,104,955 - 34,745 = 3,070,210
I wouldn't want to compare CMA's in general though. Montreal's is a sensible circle around it and Toronto's isn't too unreasonable, but many cities in the US make their CMAs and SMAs so big and sparsely populated they're more like countries.
I appreciate the work you've done. This is really fascinating!
Still not sure that present municipal boundaries provide a true apples-to-apples comparison. Boundaries were quite arbitrary before and can still be arbitrary today.
Toronto was the whitest city. Interesting. I said this before on the Canadian forum and people got mad at me. Despite its diversity the city still feels very white compared to other major cities. Most Canadian cities do. I dont know why people got so upset over that. This video confirms it though.
I think what people get upset about, is when some suggest that there is no diversity within the " white " population.
It's like suggesting that all black people are the same. That whether you come from Jamaica, Canada, or Nigeria you're the same.
The reason those Canadians cities grew in " white " population was because of immigration from many, many different countries, with different cultures mainly from the UK, Europe and the Ukraine in the first 3/4's of the 20th century.
Things changed in 1976 when the Immigration Act was revised.
Also, keep in mind, the video only goes up to 2010, it's 10 years old. I'd be curious to see current stats.
San Antonio's whites are going up in the 70s though and stay at about the same level in the 60s. Have another look. It wasn't really losing them. It had about 268575 in 1970 and 297915 in 1980.
San Antonio was 56.5% non-Hispanic white in 1930, 41% non-Hispanic white in 1970, and 37.9% white in 1980, so the percentage of whites has been steadily decreasing. So their total numbers didn't go up that much and then fell even though the city grew.
Dallas has indeed been losing white people for several decades. Here are more details for Texan cities if you're interested.
It's still the whitest very large North American city except Montreal. It only lost the white majority after 2011, while NYC, Chicago, LA, Philly, Houston, etc. lost it a while ago.
Maybe its diversity is remarked upon because (1) other cities in Canada are even whiter, Montreal significantly so; (2) people inflate the numbers of every different group, but deflate the numbers of a single very large minority group; (3) a lot of non-white people in the US are half-American Indian, half-European Hispanics, but a small minority of Hispanics especially from Cuba are in fact European.
I was using current city limits for both since that's what a lot of other sources are doing, including the Americans. Toronto is pretty reasonably designated; it's no Phoenix. According to this, Toronto within its current boundaries overtook Montreal in 1961, when it had ~ 1 824 000 to Montreal's 1 608 000.
An interesting difference is that Montreal has much whiter suburbs compared to Toronto. For example, as of 2001, Montreal's CMA had about the same number of whites as Toronto's CMA (about 2 900 000). Moreover, they continue growing in Montreal, but are shrinking in Toronto. By now, Montreal's CMA actually has more total white people than Toronto CMA.
(not a visible minority - aboriginal identity = white/European) Toronto CMA: 2,850,950 - 73,975 = 2,776,975 Montreal CMA: 3,104,955 - 34,745 = 3,070,210
I wouldn't want to compare CMA's in general though. Montreal's is a sensible circle around it and Toronto's isn't too unreasonable, but many cities in the US make their CMAs and SMAs so big and sparsely populated they're more like countries.
For the US, what were using for your definition of white? The US census definition? Canada and the US define "white" differently.
wow, Boston first started losing white people in 1930!
picked back up again briefly int he 1940s to reach its 1930 peak around 1950....and then lost 460,000 white people from 1950-2000...
In most East Coast cases, the pattern is to grow until 1930, then keep about the same population until 1950, then lose some in the 1950s. Then a drastic fall happens in the 1960s and 1970s which slows down by about 50% but doesn't stop in the 1980s and the 1990s, then slows a bit by a further 50% in the 2000s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
I think what people get upset about, is when some suggest that there is no diversity within the " white " population.
It's like suggesting that all black people are the same. That whether you come from Jamaica, Canada, or Nigeria you're the same.
The reason those Canadians cities grew in " white " population was because of immigration from many, many different countries, with different cultures mainly from the UK, Europe and the Ukraine in the first 3/4's of the 20th century.
Things changed in 1976 when the Immigration Act was revised.
Also, keep in mind, the video only goes up to 2010, it's 10 years old. I'd be curious to see current stats.
Indeed, I think people automatically assume that diversity means racial diversity, not cultural diversity. Too often "ethnic groups" is just a euphemism for "racial groups". That said, over time people usually assimilate along racial lines, so it's extremely unlikely that a Ukrainian will assimilate into African-American culture, but a black Jamaican has a very solid chance.
It would be curious to see more recent stats, but US data won't be available in a while. There are more recent stats for Montreal and Toronto though (2016). White people in Montreal declined from 1,092,470 to 1,052,430 and in Toronto they went down from 1,292,365 to 1,282,750. However, in the CMA area they went up in Montreal from about 2,963,865‬ in 2011 to 3,070,210 in 2016 but went down in Toronto from 2,887,825 to 2,776,975. Pretty impressive growth in Montreal CMA, actually - looks like those 50k lost by Montreal proper moved to the burbs and they also gained an additional 50k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texamichiforniasota
For the US, what were using for your definition of white? The US census definition? Canada and the US define "white" differently.
Yes, the US definition of non-Hispanic white. There are relatively few immigrants from the same regions of Latin America to Canada and they are regarded as visible minorities in the census. ("The visible minority population consists mainly of the following groups: South Asian, Chinese, Black, Filipino, Latin American, Arab, Southeast Asian, West Asian, Korean and Japanese.") Don't really see the big practical difference. Unless you mean something else like MENA, but they aren't very numerous in the US.
Last edited by Hums; 06-09-2020 at 07:43 PM..
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