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You’ll be needing a roommate or SO in Boston under 70k. But too me that’s not a problem (married) and the beauty of Boston, and it’s urbanity is wayyy up there. It’s overpriced but when I consider the water to one side, nature preserves, cost of union labor, limited construction time window, pre existing density and tight zoning it makes more sense.
Tbh I have heard good thing about St. Louis but I’ve also seen some terrible areas. I don’t like the location either or the constantly declining population. It has the same sort of rep as Memphis. It’s hard for me to see the good in that but it’s also hard for people to see the Good in Boston given it’s reputation.
Now Memphis was a Black city that is missing a lot. Imo
St. Louis is much more economically and culturally diverse. One thing I've learned in my travels is keep an opened mind when visiting new cities. In most cases cities offer more than what it appears to offer on paper.
St. Louis is middle America. If you don't like that fact, don't think about moving here.
There are some seriously run down areas in St. Louis. As you probably realize, there are many other options. For the most part you won't think about that stuff unless you want to.
Blacks can actually thrive in St. Louis off of entry level pay. I've known too many young people who make between 40 and 50k and purchase starter homes that are in decent areas. St. Louis is segregated by disimilarity index. There are also many options for Blacks to integrate with other cultures. There are actually some upper middle class Black areas north of Lindbergh or 67 that offers a lot for families. I think Boston is a fine city but I don't know there are the options for Blacks like in St. Louis. I could be wrong.
As I said earlier, it's not worth it to live in the NYC area if you're going to live so far out or in the less desirable "urban" areas surrounding NYC. You can find suburbia for a considerably lower COL outside of almost any other major city, and you can actually afford to live near all of the big city amenities that attracted you to the metro area of that major city in the first place.
The only area I'd probably consider moving to outside of NYC would be White Plains.
The benefit of living in NJ or Long Island or Westchester/Rockland is cheaper COL but with easy access to NYC. While living in those areas are more expensive than living in other cities I'd say the QOL/communities can make up for it. Plenty of black people are living comfortably in Montclair/South Orange/Englewood/Teaneck/etc. on the Jersey side and in Baldwin/Elmont in Long Island. Many black people are those who used to live in NYC and decided to live in the suburbs in search of cheaper costs/better schools/safer communities etc. When comparing the NYC suburbs to other non southern suburbs, I think they compare well honestly. I'd much rather live in Teaneck vs Chester PA or Camden or some of the south suburbs of Chicago.
EDIT: Full disclosure, I'm a black man from North/Central Jersey lol so I am biased.
Detroit and St. Louis? Those gotta be bottom of the barrel.
To top off the points mjtinmemphis made, I would easily place Detroit in the top 3 or 4 cities in the country for blue collar African-Americans. There are very few major cities where an unskilled worker can earn good wages / benefits *AND* afford a nice house in a nice part of the city/metro area, and Detroit is one of them.
I will grant you, Detroit does have a much more gritty feel to it and some may have a bone to pick about working in the Automotive Industry. But from a livability standpoint, the metro area really isn't much different than Boston. You get all of the same big city amenities (aside from transit and an Ivy League university) and they're considerably more affordable.
I should also repeat, Detroit is in the top 10 metro areas for the number of African-Americans making $50K+, while Boston isn't even in the top 15.
Last edited by citidata18; 07-12-2020 at 09:47 AM..
I am surprised that not more people are ranking the Chicago area higher. Big city, walkable area, large black population in the city and suburbs, good overall economy, etc. Blackest metro outside the South after NYC metro and one of the blackest metro outside the South by population.
Boston for the comfort, safety and amenities. I was just visiting there again this past week. It was great. Very international feel, strong black community, everyone seems to be making money (Nowadays, this is important), just much cleaner brighter and well run than the NYC/Philly Area. A little slower pace of life, less congested feeling, access to beaches, adequate green space, with emerging black suburbs to the south. If I were to move north it would be back to Boston or nothing for me.
Never in my life ever would I choose any midwestern metro over Boston. Maybe Chicago. But my friends from Chicago liked Boston’s black neighborhoods more than their own (when visiting with me). Honestly too much violence and destiny it e generational poverty amongst the black people in midwestern cities. I’m good.
Connecticut as a stand alone is also underrated. Many non NYC affiliates towns in CT provide a similar type of life as Maplewood or Orange or Plainfield but are more Latino and less outwardly progressive than a Maplewood. But it’s TERRIBLY boring and people there don’t seem to like it much.
Detroit and St. Louis? Those gotta be bottom of the barrel.
Detroit and St. Louis have some of the largest black population in the country, there is no way they can be bottom of the barrel (of places outside the South) when places like Milwaukee or Portland, etc. exist.
Now Memphis was a Black city that is missing a lot. Imo
St. Louis is much more economically and culturally diverse. One thing I've learned in my travels is keep an opened mind when visiting new cities. In most cases cities offer more than what it appears to offer on paper.
St. Louis is middle America. If you don't like that fact, don't think about moving here.
There are some seriously run down areas in St. Louis. As you probably realize, there are many other options. For the most part you won't think about that stuff unless you want to.
Yea I realize St. Louis has better univeristies and some wealthier areas to the south and simply due to the concentration of black Folks there’s gotta be a sizable black middle class. For me it’s the location and the small size of the city/metro population wise. I could be wrong but it seems very settled and not all that ‘dynamic’
You are right, Boston is a difficult city for a port of entry for multiple reasons: people social sciences are very established and insular, nightlife is scattered and patchy, and the cost of entry is a real barrier. There are places in the metro t enter at a lower price point but there very urban but not in bad shape. One of my friend moved from Paterson NJ (population 146k, 8 square miles) to Lynn MA( population 95k, 10 square miles) two urban cities with heavily Latino populations and smaller black populations outside of NYC and Boston respectively. She was Jamaican-but notes the cleanliness and culture of Lynn was less dysfunctional than Paterson and it felt safer.
Places like Lynn, Randolph, Milton, Framingham (black mayor), Stoughton, Avon, Holbrook, Bridgewater Dedham, Everett, Quincy, Malden Brockton are all urbanized towns near Boston with a good number of detached single family homes and relatively low crime rates. They range from 6-42% black and the schools are generally superior to most of the country. Problem is Even a small dated home will cost you at least 315k. you can buy an old condo in a complex for 190k. Rents at the lowest for a studio are $1100 or $1400 for a 1BR. So to me more than anything the draw back of Boston is the price.
there are also people who live further out in the large cities of Lowell MA(pop 11ok) Worcester MA (pop 185k, very black downtown) and Providence RI (pop 180k). All gritty but affordable and 45 minutes from Boston. Ranging from 9-15% black, and 31-53% white.but in these cities a 2BR for 1100 is much more common and housing prices are mostly in the $200s
So if you dont like the price or the high international black population I don’t think you can like Boston. That’s fair.
Detroit and St. Louis have some of the largest black population in the country, there is no way they can be bottom of the barrel (of places outside the South) when places like Milwaukee or Portland, etc. exist.
Crime, divestment, segregation (not by choice) and weather (Detroit) general stagnation. With higher than average black poverty rates and some of the worst ghettoes in the country. No way that doesn’t heavily impact or infiltrate the mainstream black culture of the entire metro.
I can definitely concede that the Metros are probably better than I realize. Ik of some nice black suburbs in the Detroit area.
Milwaukee and Portland, from what I’ve seen in data points, yea I agree. They seem pretty bad.
To top off the points mjtinmemphis made, I would easily place Detroit in the top 3 or 4 cities in the country for blue collar African-Americans. There are very few major cities where an unskilled worker can earn good wages / benefits *AND* afford a nice house in a nice part of the city/metro area, and Detroit is one of them.
I will grant you, Detroit does have a much more gritty feel to it and some may have a bone to pick about working in the Automotive Industry. But from a livability standpoint, the metro area really isn't much different than Boston. You get all of the same big city amenities (aside from transit and an Ivy League university) and they're considerably more affordable.
I should also repeat, Detroit is in the top 10 metro areas for the number of African-Americans making $50K+, while Boston isn't even in the top 15.
Yea I’d it better that according to the Brookline’s institute 2018x Boston had the highest balck median household income in the country after DC.
Also average pay for Boston blue collar workers is like 90k.
The standard MBTA bus driver makes 88k, Boston public School teachers(21% black) make 91k, Boston Police (23-% black) make 146k. Prevailing wage is $58/hr in Massachusetts. The blue collar jobs in MA pay exorbitantly.
Also average pay for Boston blue collar workers is like 90k.
The standard MBTA bus driver makes 88k, Boston public School teachers(21% black) make 91k, Boston Police (23-% black) make 146k. Prevailing wage is $58/hr in Massachusetts. The blue collar jobs in MA pay exorbitantly.
If you look at those numbers in a vacuum, they may be impressive.
But there are two things to take to consideration:
1. How may African-Americans in total are making that type of money? Relative to other major metros (including Detroit and San Francisco), not many.
2. How far does that money go in Boston? Outside of NYC, SF plus *maybe* DC and LA, not far at all. Meanwhile, UAW workers in Detroit making $33/hr+ overtime can live in McMansions, send their kids to decent school districts and still have disposable income for sports games, museums, higher-end shopping at Somerset Collections, etc.
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