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Horrible planning? Yea holla at me when you can take the 7 train across the Hudson to Weehawken directly from Midtown.
I'm the first that would admit to wishing a 4 track system for express trains on Metro, but the hub and spoke wheel system evenly covers the areas outside the Downtown core to areas outside of it, in almost equidistant directions. It's one of the BEST planned systems. Execution of that planning is entirely separate.
I was at Port Authority one night in Midtown, and had to take a stinky old rented school bus over to NJ Blvd East. Why? Because there's no direct train going there. An experience I would not need to go through in DC with a one seat Metro ride downtown to my neighborhood. And you wanna talk about poor planning? Lol. I'll also raise you on that "consistency" factor, the MTA is far from the gold standard there. Even Chicago has it beat.
the first sentence makes no sense but with that being said there is a great transportation system in NJ that takes you in and out of Manhattan. MTA trains do not serve New Jersey . Looks like you/re going to have to talk to NJ about extending the PATH to Weehawken and then to Midtown.
I dont believe this topic is about Chicago neither its about NY metro vs DC and the fact is the DC metro is more inconsistent and also much more pricier. You can boast about how Modern it is but people would prefer a 24/7 system that is affordable.
Also NJ is an entire state and most of Northern NJ is a suburb. As far as NJ cities the PATH subway does a great job taking people from Manhattan to Hoboken, Jersey City, Harrison, and Newark.
THE NJT railroad also does a good job serving just about almost every town in Northern NJ.
I apologize that the system was not made to accomadate you specifically and I will make sure to use your mindset next time in DC where subway stops do not exist on every block.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,568,606 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynJo
the first sentence makes no sense but with that being said there is a great transportation system in NJ that takes you in and out of Manhattan. MTA trains do not serve New Jersey . Looks like you/re going to have to talk to NJ about extending the PATH to Weehawken and then to Midtown.
I dont believe this topic is about Chicago neither its about NY metro vs DC and the fact is the DC metro is more inconsistent and also much more pricier. You can boast about how Modern it is but people would prefer a 24/7 system that is affordable.
Also NJ is an entire state and most of Northern NJ is a suburb. As far as NJ cities the PATH subway does a great job taking people from Manhattan to Hoboken, Jersey City, Harrison, and Newark.
THE NJT railroad also does a good job serving just about almost every town in Northern NJ.
I apologize that the system was not made to accomadate you specifically and I will make sure to use your mindset next time in DC where subway stops do not exist on every block.
Maybe my point wasn't clear enough, cause I see that I just went right over your head...
You decided to call out DC's Metro system, when all I said was the trains are newer and more modern in DC. Which is true. I didn't mention anything about service on either system, you did.
My point is that NYC doesn't have a system similar to DC in that you can access each part of the city or suburbs in equidistant format. Have you seen the DC Metro map? The whole point was that MTA doesn't go into NJ, and only serves the 5 boroughs, where as WMATA serves two states and the District of Columbia.
If I'm in Downtown DC, I don't have to take a school bus (I guess the charters were all rented), across the bridge/tunnel to the adjacent state. In NYC you have to do this in certain parts. The PATH is the only train across, but is a different system, and it doesn't cover all of Northern NJ, nor does it go to Port Authority which is a MAJOR transportation hub in Midtown Manhattan. Such a pain.
It's not about a train station on every stop meeting someone's needs, because I was at a station. The train simply doesn't serve NJ from that spot. MTA is still better overall, I'm just pointing out things about DC that one could appreciate in comparison to NYC. Which is what the thread is about. I wouldn't have had to call any of this personal experience of mine out, if you didn't come for DC, when all I did was compliment the trains for being newer.
Lastly DC has the 2nd busiest system in the country after New York, so if it's so un-affordable and inconsistent why is it busier than everywhere else? It's not the 2nd biggest metro area in the country is it? What gives?
Last edited by the resident09; 07-28-2020 at 04:32 PM..
Maybe my point wasn't clear enough, cause I see that I just went right over your head...
You decided to call out DC's Metro system, when all I said was the trains are newer and more modern in DC. Which is true. I didn't mention anything about service on either system, you did.
My point is that NYC doesn't have a system similar to DC in that you can access each part of the city or suburbs in equidistant format. Have you seen the DC Metro map? The whole point was that MTA doesn't go into NJ, and only serves the 5 boroughs, where as WMATA serves two states and the District of Columbia.
If I'm in Downtown DC, I don't have to take a school bus (I guess the charters were all rented), across the bridge/tunnel to the adjacent state. In NYC you have to do this in certain parts. The PATH is the only train across, but is a different system, and it doesn't cover all of Northern NJ, nor does it go to Port Authority which is a MAJOR transportation hub in Midtown Manhattan. Such a pain.
It's not about a train station on every stop meeting someone's needs, because I was at a station. The train simply doesn't serve NJ from that spot. MTA is still better overall, I'm just pointing out things about DC that one could appreciate in comparison to NYC. Which is what the thread is about. I wouldn't have had to call any of this personal experience of mine out, if you didn't come for DC, when all I did was compliment the trains for being newer.
Lastly DC has the 2nd busiest system in the country after New York, so if it's so un-affordable and inconsistent why is it busier than everywhere else? It's not the 2nd biggest metro area in the country is it? What gives?
Yes! You called out a con for NYC subways and I did the same for DC. While agreeing that DC subways are more "modern" I called out the con for DC subway which I find to be poorly planned, inconsistent while beng the most expensive or one of the most expensive subway systems in the country.
You would have to know about the MTA to compare it first. Like I told you the MTA as a whole only serves NYC, Long Island, Upstate counties, and Conneticut. There are three systems - the subway, LIRR, and Metro North. The subway itself only does the 5 boroughs. The Metro North takes you to upstate and CT and LIRR takes you to Long island.
NJ has its own systems - The Path, NJT that connects their commuters into Manhattan so in reality your complaints about having a hard time to access NJ is more of a NJ problem not a MTA problem.
Overall the NYC metro area is much more connected than the DMV if we are comparing train transportion
I never disputed DC's subway impact. I know how important it is but it has its own cons. I use to beleive all the hype about the DC subway when I was young but that was until I actually had to use it.
Yes! You called out a con for NYC subways and I did the same for DC. While agreeing that DC subways are more "modern" I called out the con for DC subway which I find to be poorly planned, inconsistent while beng the most expensive or one of the most expensive subway systems in the country.
You would have to know about the MTA to compare it first. Like I told you the MTA as a whole only serves NYC, Long Island, Upstate counties, and Conneticut. There are three systems - the subway, LIRR, and Metro North. The subway itself only does the 5 boroughs. The Metro North takes you to upstate and CT and LIRR takes you to Long island.
NJ has its own systems - The Path, NJT that connects their commuters into Manhattan so in reality your complaints about having a hard time to access NJ is more of a NJ problem not a MTA problem.
Overall the NYC metro area is much more connected than the DMV if we are comparing train transportion
I never disputed DC's subway impact. I know how important it is but it has its own cons. I use to beleive all the hype about the DC subway when I was young but that was until I actually had to use it.
With the exception of Los Angeles' urban subway, every one of what I refer to as the "Second Subway Era" heavy rapid transit lines and systems (in rough chronological order from opening of first line: San Francisco/Oakland BART, Washington Metro, Atlanta MARTA, Baltimore Metro, Miami Metrorail, LA Metro Subway) are hybrids designed for an era when the suburbs had already been built (in contrast to the four legacy systems in Boston, Chicago, New York and Philadelphia, when the subways themselves extended to parts of their cities that had not been built out yet).
The hybrid part is their function in the suburbs, which is more akin to that of suburban commuter rail.
To draw a more accurate parallel, it would be as if the LIRR and Metro-North Commuter Railroad ran onto the New York City Subway once inside the city limits and operated at NYC Subway frequencies.
Commuter rail lines charge fares according to distance traveled (so do some large European subway systems, London most notably). Thus WMATA and BART both adopted that fare structure.
I wouldn't dispute your statement that the New York region has a more extensive rail network that serves more points than the one in Greater Washington, even after controlling for the size difference between the two metros. And I also agree that building the entire network with only two-track lines was a mistake, especially given the traffic the WMATA system handles.
But frankly, I'd have said that the bigger con was the lousy operating and maintenance culture at WMATA. But as long as the trains don't crash, you don't notice that. However, there have been more crashes and accidents (fatal and non-fatal) on WMATA Metrorail in its 44 years of operation than there have been on any of the four legacy systems plus Cleveland* in their century-plus histories (65 years in Cleveland's case).
*The Cleveland Rapid opened in 1955, between what I call the First (1897-1940) and Second (1971-1992) Subway Eras.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,568,606 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynJo
Leaves NY in the dust? No it doesnt. Something tells me you're going to bring in MD and VA in this conversation to prove your point.
This thread is by metro area. Which is what I think what is being missed here. I'm not saying NY metro isn't still greater, because it still offers more due to size. But the DMV metro area is absolutely an attractive metro to many, and of the two it's the one with still healthy growth, and probably more balanced by comparison than NY-NJ-CT. IMO someone moving from out of state to either one of these places would have a much smoother transition to DC-MD-VA, but that's just my personal feelings/what I've heard from others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynJo
You would have to know about the MTA to compare it first. Like I told you the MTA as a whole only serves NYC, Long Island, Upstate counties, and Conneticut. There are three systems - the subway, LIRR, and Metro North. The subway itself only does the 5 boroughs. The Metro North takes you to upstate and CT and LIRR takes you to Long island.
NJ has its own systems - The Path, NJT that connects their commuters into Manhattan so in reality your complaints about having a hard time to access NJ is more of a NJ problem not a MTA problem.
Overall the NYC metro area is much more connected than the DMV if we are comparing train transportion
I never disputed DC's subway impact. I know how important it is but it has its own cons. I use to beleive all the hype about the DC subway when I was young but that was until I actually had to use it.
I take the MTA pretty often, which is my point. Simply put Midtown/ Upper West Side/Uptown does not have rail connection to major parts of Northern NJ. To get there from West NY/Guttenberg or North Bergen etc., you have to take a bus through the traffic clogged and sometimes flooding Lincoln tunnel. In Weehawken you have to take a Ferry or the Lincoln tunnel. It's not seamless across the metro area. This is not an advantage for NYC.
In DC (which obviously is the smaller metro), we don't have this problem. Yes NY has more rail coverage, it's the biggest metro in the US, but this isn't about commuter rail coverage. I'm referring to the convenience of a one seat ride. I can go across town entirely on one system with a one seat ride from MD through DC into VA suburbs. Again this thread is about "metro areas". So for NY to "crush" DC like it says in the poll #'s, I need it to be validated as to how the two truly compare.
The seamless (one seat ride) airport connections via Metro to both primary airports (once Dulles Metro opens next spring) is another advantage for DC's system and it's metro area.
Last edited by the resident09; 07-30-2020 at 05:54 AM..
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. Looks like you/re going to have to talk to NJ about extending the PATH to Weehawken and then to Midtown.
