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It's also the problem with using MSAs though. Tacoma is part of the Seattle MSA, even though it's 34 miles away and separated by some sparsely populated areas. Tacoma has a bachelor degree rate of 28% because it is a very large military base. It also has a population of 200k (which is a third of Seattle) and includes its own suburbs and metro area. It's not like Tacoma is a commuting suburb of Seattle.
It would be like including Worcester MA into the Boston MSA, which would reduce Boston MSA's bachelor degree rate too. Worcester however is somehow a separate MSA from Boston MSA.
Boston and Seattle were directly comparable as cities with similar populations, whereas adding MSAs with somewhat arbitrary inclusions now I think actually starts to cloud the picture.
Good point but I think city limits are pretty arbitrary as well, and definitely less uniform across city to city than MSA. Seattle and Boston have pretty low square mileage compared to many other cities. I think typically, the smaller a major city, the more expensive it tends to be, and the more expensive it tends to be, the higher probability that well-to-do individuals occupy it, and the more well-to-do individuals there are, the higher chance they have a formal education. It’s all relative I believe. I think if you only took 50 or 60 square miles in the core of, say Dallas or Phoenix, I think there would be more educated people than in the rest of their huge city limits.
All this is to say, using MSA in conjunction may muddy the waters a bit, yes, but I don’t think the use of city limits alone is a good enough indicator.
All this is to say, using MSA in conjunction may muddy the waters a bit, yes, but I don’t think the use of city limits alone is a good enough indicator.
I think it would be interesting to compare Greater Boston within Route 128 and the collar burbs (Cambridge, Brookline, Newton, Belmont, Lexington, Quincy, Milton) with Greater Seattle (collar suburbs like Shoreline, Edmonds, Burien, plus Eastside Bellevue, Kirkland, Redmond).
More meaningful I think than including far-flung exurbs or only looking at city proper.
It's also the problem with using MSAs though. Tacoma is part of the Seattle MSA, even though it's 34 miles away and separated by some sparsely populated areas. Tacoma has a bachelor degree rate of 28% because it is a very large military base. It also has a population of 200k (which is a third of Seattle) and includes its own suburbs and metro area. It's not like Tacoma is a commuting suburb of Seattle.
It would be like including Worcester MA into the Boston MSA, which would reduce Boston MSA's bachelor degree rate too. Worcester however is somehow a separate MSA from Boston MSA.
Boston and Seattle were directly comparable as cities with similar populations, whereas adding MSAs with somewhat arbitrary inclusions now I think actually starts to cloud the picture.
A better comparison would be Greater Boston (Boston-Cambridge-Newton) versus Greater Seattle (Seattle-Bellevue-Everett).
That’s kind of silly because Boston’s MSA includes way more remote and independent places than Seattle. You’re idea for inside 128 is also flawed because you can be 1 town removed from Boston and not inside 128. 128 is skewed heavily to the north of Boston,
That’s kind of silly because Boston’s MSA includes way more remote and independent places than Seattle. You’re idea for inside 128 is also flawed because you can be 1 town removed from Boston and not inside 128. 128 is skewed heavily to the north of Boston,
Eh, but they are not as densely populated yet mostly independent areas like Tacoma, which has 200k people plus its burbs. There's no Worcester or Providence in the Boston MSA, which is what Tacoma is relative to Seattle.
I meant Rt 128 for Greater Boston loosely, you can include all the collar suburbs plus those on or within 128.
Eh, but they are not as densely populated yet mostly independent areas like Tacoma, which has 200k people plus its burbs. There's no Worcester or Providence in the Boston MSA, which is what Tacoma is relative to Seattle.
I meant Rt 128 for Greater Boston loosely, you can include all the collar suburbs plus those on or within 128.
Manchester and Nashua . Manchester is 53 miles away. Nashua is 46.
Those are very independent of Boston and have their own suburbs. Many
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 10-11-2020 at 01:18 PM..
FYI one of the methodologies in ranking these regions is that MSA is given more importance than city proper, since MSA typically has a much larger population. That’s why Seattle, although it’s city proper percentage is high, is only fifth on this list, because DC’s, SF’s, San Jose’s, and Boston’s metro population percentage dwarf it pretty significantly.
Also, it’s crazy that a bunch of major cities didn’t make the cut. NYC, Baltimore, Philly, Dallas, St. Louis, LA, Houston, Miami, and Phoenix all had a relatively low combined city proper and MSA percentage of people with at least a Bachelors degree. In almost all of these cases, it was the city proper itself that took these cities out of the top 20.
That’s incorrect. Seattle’s MSA is nearly 4 Million - it’s much bigger than San Jose’s and just a little smaller than SF and Boston.
Seattle just has a huge discrepancy in the education level of the city proper and most of the metro area (aside from a few Eastside suburbs).
And there’s a clear explanation - Seattle proper has an enormous number of educated tech workers. They move from out of state and out of country to work at tech companies. The vast majority live in the city proper or Bellevue/Redmond. The rest of the metro is pretty working class and much more local Washingtonian-heavy. SF, SJ and Boston’s metro areas on the whole are more educated. That’s obvious from spending a lot of time in these places.
Tacoma and Everett are the two other regional hubs in the Seattle metro and they are not educated places at all.
Last edited by Vincent_Adultman; 10-11-2020 at 02:56 PM..
It's also the problem with using MSAs though. Tacoma is part of the Seattle MSA, even though it's 34 miles away and separated by some sparsely populated areas. Tacoma has a bachelor degree rate of 28% because it is a very large military base. It also has a population of 200k (which is a third of Seattle) and includes its own suburbs and metro area. It's not like Tacoma is a commuting suburb of Seattle.
It would be like including Worcester MA into the Boston MSA, which would reduce Boston MSA's bachelor degree rate too. Worcester however is somehow a separate MSA from Boston MSA.
Boston and Seattle were directly comparable as cities with similar populations, whereas adding MSAs with somewhat arbitrary inclusions now I think actually starts to cloud the picture.
A better comparison would be Greater Boston (Boston-Cambridge-Newton) versus Greater Seattle (Seattle-Bellevue-Everett).
I’m not sure about that. Everett has a bachelor degree rate of 23%, even lower than Tacoma’s. That because a lot of Boeing workers live in Everett and a lot of them don’t have Bachelor’s Degrees. As I’ve said the Seattle metro outside of Seattle proper and the Eastside is not a particularly educated place.
Edit - I just checked and the Seattle-Bellevue-Everett metro division has a 48% bachelor’s degree rate, still much, much lower than the City of Seattle proper. And that doesn’t even include Tacoma. With Tacoma - ie the full MSA - it’s about 44%.
Last edited by Vincent_Adultman; 10-11-2020 at 03:13 PM..
I’m not sure about that. Everett has a bachelor degree rate of 23%, even lower than Tacoma’s. That because a lot of Boeing workers live in Everett and a lot of them don’t have Bachelor’s Degrees. As I’ve said the Seattle metro outside of Seattle proper and the Eastside is not a particularly educated place.
Edit - I just checked and the Seattle-Bellevue-Everett metro division has a 48% bachelor’s degree rate, still much, much lower than the City of Seattle proper. And that doesn’t even include Tacoma. With Tacoma - ie the full MSA - it’s about 44%.
Every city has areas/suburbs with low degree rates...every single one. And, each of these brings down that city's total.
Every city has areas/suburbs with low degree rates...every single one. And, each of these brings down that city's total.
We’re talking about the discrepancy between city proper and metro area degree rates - you understand those are two different things, right? No other city/metro area comes close to Seattle/Seattle MSA in that regard.
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