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Boston has edge cities like that but their cities-not suburbs. I think Naperville is more an exception than the in the north-even in Chicagoland. A wealthy white edge city. And its one place
All the places your listing with many desirable/dynamic outer suburbs are in the Sunbelt. Asians are diversity but the lack of blacks/latinos in Irvine and Naperville is real. 90% white and Asian isnt terribly diverse. ou can get the jobs and equal or more diveristy in Arlington and Cambridge. And other places.
But this is why I said it "circumstantial".
Good points. So why do Sunbelt cities tend to have much more vibrant outer suburbs than Northern cities? After all, even Chicago did have considerable post war growth.
Also, I find it interesting that Toronto, despite being a Great Lakes city, has the outer suburb vibrancy of a sun belt city. Greater Toronto has a population growth rate that rivals DFW, and Greater Toronto outer suburbs like Markham are heavyweights on par with LA outer suburbs like Irvine, both of which would punch the outer suburbs of Boston or Philly out of the ring in terms of density, diversity, and jobs.
An interesting example of an affluent outer LA suburb (more like exurb, actually) with diversity is Eastvale, which has a six figure median household income in addition to being 40% Hispanic, 10% black, and 25% Asian. 10% black is substantial in California, where "minority" usually means Hispanic or Asian. Mostly a bedroom community, though--people there probably commute to Irvine via toll roads.
Boston has edge cities like that but their cities-not suburbs. I think Naperville is more an exception than the in the north-even in Chicagoland. A wealthy white edge city. And its one place
All the places your listing with many desirable/dynamic outer suburbs are in the Sunbelt. Asians are diversity but the lack of blacks/latinos in Irvine and Naperville is real. 90% white and Asian isnt terribly diverse. ou can get the jobs and equal or more diveristy in Arlington and Cambridge. And other places.
But this is why I said it "circumstantial".
Naperville is actually the end of a string of well to do suburbs along the Burlington Northern line, extending from Riverside that almost borders Chicago to Naperville way out, but not alone, as just one pearl in the string of suburbs heading west. Its nor really one place, but has wealthy towns to the north ( Geneva, St. Charles) and about 10 to the east.
You really need to visit Chicago so you can actually have a visual of what you are talking about.
Greater Toronto outer suburbs like Markham are heavyweights on par with LA outer suburbs like Irvine, both of which would punch the outer suburbs of Boston or Philly out of the ring in terms of density
Markham appears to be significantly less dense than Lawrence? And about half as dense as Lowell?
Good points. So why do Sunbelt cities tend to have much more vibrant outer suburbs than Northern cities? After all, even Chicago did have considerable post war growth.
Also, I find it interesting that Toronto, despite being a Great Lakes city, has the outer suburb vibrancy of a sunbelt city. Greater Toronto has a population growth rate that rivals DFW, and Greater Toronto outer suburbs like Markham are heavyweights on par with LA outer suburbs like Irvine, both of which would punch the outer suburbs of Boston or Philly out of the ring in terms of density, diversity, and jobs.
They didn't just have post-war growth they had modern growth into the 1980s and onward. Most northern cities were experiencing minimal growth at that time after decades of population loss. No need to build new housing. All that modernity-and the values/lifestyle that go with it-missed much of the rust belt and New England.
Also, older northern suburbs (especially Boston) were made specifically as an escape and reprieve from all things urban "Hence why you can find "Country Day Schools" in what are now wealthier areas near urban cores in DC and Boston. Especially in New England, there's a high very value on independence, hardiness and frugality/lack of frills.
Many wealthy towns just 15 miles outside of Boston don't have trash pick up or public sewage systems (Dover is a good example-listed as desirable here but you need your own septic system and to haul your own garbage and its less than 8 miles from Bostons border.) The limited amenities (many of these towns have no commercial properties to speak of-downtown Dover) make it very difficult for a person of middle class means to infiltrate because of these hidden sunken costs. This is 6 miles from Boston
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 11-03-2020 at 10:27 AM..
Naperville is actually the end of a string of well to do suburbs along the Burlington Northern line, extending from Riverside that almost borders Chicago to Naperville way out, but not alone, as just one pearl in the string of suburbs heading west. Its nor really one place, but has wealthy towns to the north ( Geneva, St. Charles) and about 10 to the east.
You really need to visit Chicago so you can actually have a visual of what you are talking about.
Yea I know that (wife was offered a job in Naperville and we were looking at living in the area) but it's still an edge city, no? It's quite a ways from Chicago itself. The other towns between Chicago and Naperville are towns /villages not cities, no?
Boston - sure I'm biased as I've lived here my entire 60 years. So much diversity across the various surrounding towns.
Washington DC
Philadelphia
DFW
Houston
St Louis
Las Vegas
They didn't just have post-war growth they had modern growth into the 1980s and onward. Most northern cities were experiencing minimal growth at that time after decades of population loss. No need to build new housing. All that modernity-and the values/lifestyle that go with it-missed much of the rust belt and New England.
Makes sense. Same could be said about Toronto, which despite being a Great Lakes City resembles a Sunbelt city in terms of its recent explosive growth.
Many wealthy towns just 15 miles outside of Boston don't have trash pick up or public sewage systems (Dover is a good example-listed as desirable here but you need your own septic system and to haul your own garbage and its less than 8 miles from Bostons border.) The limited amenities (many of these towns have no commercial properties to speak of-downtown Dover) make it very difficult for a person of middle class means to infiltrate because of these hidden sunken costs. This is 6 miles from Boston
That is shocking how lacking in facilities some Boston burbs are. Wouldn't fly in Irvine. But I'm the kind of guy who likes the newest, biggest suburbs, so places like Irvine, Frisco/Plano, and Markham, Ontario are heaven on earth for me.
That is shocking how lacking in facilities some Boston burbs are. Wouldn't fly in Irvine. But I'm the kind of guy who likes the newest, biggest suburbs, so places like Irvine, Frisco/Plano, and Markham, Ontario are heaven on earth for me.
My replies in bold.
Facilities? Oh like the Dover example? Yeah, though it’s worth pointing out that that town is very wealthy. They could change it if they wanted to.
That is shocking how lacking in facilities some Boston burbs are. Wouldn't fly in Irvine. But I'm the kind of guy who likes the newest, biggest suburbs, so places like Irvine, Frisco/Plano, and Markham, Ontario are heaven on earth for me.
My replies in bold.
You're way too young to be focused on stale suburbia.
Facilities? Oh like the Dover example? Yeah, though it’s worth pointing out that that town is very wealthy. They could change it if they wanted to.
But that might would allow for more density, stores and that would in turn potentially attract more 'poors' and families with children. Which would require school expansion to avoid overcrowding and could even result in non-Asian minorities. And that would defeat some of the main purposes of living in Dover. They want small schools and a certain level of homogeneousness and privacy. It's like 400 people per square mile and just a few miles from Boston-for a reason.
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