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So you admit that the two trails aren’t the same? Because if you have to leave the trail to visit the attractions you want to go to, the trail itself isn’t a destination. The Beltline is not just a transportation corridor or recreation trail, it’s a destination in and of itself.
They serve the same purposes and you can do the exact same things on each one. I’ll leave it at that. No one is going to change anyone’s mind on the subject.
Re-read my post. When I say “but” it is not a preface for an exception.
No. All of the 'buts' used were excuses as to why they aren't the same.
I don't usually give much stock to the polls that accompany these threads, but in this case the differences between Atlanta and Dallas are pretty accurately portrayed.
Do you consider Little Saigon as part of Alief? This has been subject for debate for a while now.
I consider Alief a large area. So of course anything South of Westheimer, East of Highway 6, North of Bellfort and West of Beltway 8 is Alief. I do also tend to throw in Westwood/Club Creek Area (basically South of Brays Bayou north of Keegan's Bayou bordered by Beltway 8 as Alief).
The only area, that's iffy for me is the triangle between South of Westheimer, North of Westpark and east of Highway 6. This area give's me Alief vibes and it contains West Oaks Mall but because the areas to the South of it, Four Corners, and Mission Bend are independent communities, I don't know how to classify it.
To me Alief is a Super-neighborhood, so Little Saigon, Western portion of Westchase, Royal Oaks and Highway 6 area and Westwood are all part of Alief.
In the same way Chinatown, Harwin Drive and Mahatma Ghandi District are all part of Sharpstown/Greater Sharpstown.
In terms of potential for amazing redevelopment Alief/Sharpstown/Gulfton/Spring Branch and the Westside south of Buffalo Bayou but north of Westpark has the most potential in Houston for good solid, urban redevelopment. The Westside is already seeing some interesting development. Alief/Sharpstown Probably my favorite region of Houston because it's such an interesting contrast. If Brays Oak/Braeburn can somehow be redeveloped too (although those areas to me are a bit more questionable), Houston from 90 to 290 going all the way into the city can be splendid.
To add to the conversation outside of Dallas vs. Houston vs. Atlanta. How is San Antonio below Austin on a metro level. If we are arguing cores. Austin got Downtown, West Campus/University, (I missing a few other areas), but once we start talking Metro area, San Antonio quickly takes the test. West Austin some of which is only 2 or 3 miles from Downtown is impossible to walk. Not even bad walkability, but it's no sidewalks, winding roads on hills with poor visibility (A car could easily run over a jaywalker). It completely takes away from any metro-wide discussion on urbanity. Austin excels in it's core but outside of that San Antonio is actually denser. To this Day San Antonio is denser while being the bigger city physically. Austin's core is very impressive, but I live in it much of the year, North Downtown around were the Capital is located is parking garage hell. The extremely vibrant part of the metro is not more than 2-3% of Austin. One advantage Austin has over other cities is that the core is middle class/wealthy so it feels more accessible. No one wants to be wandering around the Third Ward of Houston and various parts of central San Antonio at all times of the night. But since Austin's core is the safest in Texas you see all sorts of folk trudging the streets well into the night.
The funny thing about this is that while it's not in a city way. San Antonio is actually quite similar to Austin in that the Riverwalk/Alamo area is ridiculously packed. More than any single strip I could think of in Houston or Dallas (take in mind when I go there I'm largely in the suburbs so it's biased as my time in SA and Austin are almost spent entirely in the center of those cities)much like various parts of Downtown Austin. Of course tourist density is very different from local density, but the Riverwalk is also filled with tons of local people.
Austin is definitely heading in the right direction, and San Antonio's core seems stagnant by comparison but as of today theirs's no way they are in different tiers when talking metro-wide. We are still talking 5-10% of both metros that walk to work, take transit or bike to work. Also while Austin is heading in the right direction, transit usage keeps dropping as a percent of the metro because as much as the core improves, Austin's growth is still dominated by suburban growth just like any other metro area.
I'm actually someone who spends my time in Austin carless, it's doable, but involves a lot of carpooling with friends.
This is why I constantly say that density is not urbanity. I can understand why some would be confused when I show them two neighborhoods (This vs This) and say that the latter is better because of its build form. I don't care about density in Houston when those same people with smaller yards and lot sizes get in their car just like suburban Atlantans and drive to the same kinds of office parks and strip malls. At least most Atlantans have pockets of walkability near them that are better blueprints for future development and transit connectivity even if they have to drive to them in the present. Even if the people in the second streetview live in a more rural and less dense community, they can leave their house in the morning and walk to a cafe for breakfast. The citizens in nearby South Fulton with larger lot sizes can drive in, walk around, and still enjoy nature. And if they want to visit the city, they are still just miles from a more urban and walkable core than either Dallas or Houston. That's a lot more functional than a dense subdivision surrounded by more dense subdivisions.
I agree with everything your saying which is why I generally prefer Atlanta’s Burbs to Houston burbs. More of DFW burbs are a little closer to Atlanta burbs though.
I will add though that The Woodlands(the burb in the google map) is kind of similar to Alpharetta. It’s the exception in Houston MSA. There’s a nice market square and vibrant activity in the immediate area. And there’s plenty of trails all around The Woodlands. The city is built to encourage walking and fitness. TW is the only suburb here that you could do without car depending on where you live. I’d say The Woodlands is one of the best master planned communities in the nation. Too bad other burbs in Houston couldn’t follow suit.
No. All of the 'buts' used were excuses as to why they aren't the same.
I don't usually give much stock to the polls that accompany these threads, but in this case the differences between Atlanta and Dallas are pretty accurately portrayed.
Ehhhh...
Atlanta is more urban than Dallas, but the gap is not huge. It’s more of it edging out Dallas than blowing it out of the water.
Between Dallas, Atlanta, and Houston, the gap in urbanity between all three is not big.
No. All of the 'buts' used were excuses as to why they aren't the same.
I don't usually give much stock to the polls that accompany these threads, but in this case the differences between Atlanta and Dallas are pretty accurately portrayed.
All please. Your delusional at best. Atlanta is a fine city but it damn sure doesn’t trump Dallas in urbanity. I hate these threads with Atlantan’s because ya’ll seem to live in a bubble. The beltline project is nice but the development around the Beltline is very similar to what you would find around the DFW metro. DFW is not exactly short of trails & just because a trail makes a loop and has development doesn’t make it superior to other trails. I personally don’t see the big deal about it like many other posters have stated. I definitely don’t envy it.
Last edited by Exult.Q36; 01-09-2021 at 12:51 PM..
Atlanta is more urban than Dallas, but the gap is not huge. It’s more of it edging out Dallas than blowing it out of the water.
Between Dallas, Atlanta, and Houston, the gap in urbanity between all three is not big.
I’ll sum it up...
Midtown Atlanta got an earlier head start on urbanizing than Uptown Dallas, but Uptown is catching up. Areas of Dallas outside of Uptown, like Deep Ellum and such are historically urban and no neighborhood in Atlanta outside of Midtown fits its scale.
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