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I do not know that "organic" feel comes to mind with DC for me. Some of the older sections of the city when you get away from the core have an organic feel, but much of DC (including its suburbs) do not feel "organic" in any way to me. Baltimore may be more organic, although organic does not always equal nice. Although there are definitely some very charming pockets of Baltimore.
I agree with all of this. About DC and Bmore. The thing is the vast majority of any city is not the core. The core holds an outsized importance to non residents of any city. And it’s often overestimates it’s size or centrality or people who actually live there.
A lot of Baltimore isn’t nice but it’s still urban even the urban blight. The keyword is urban.
That poster was talking about LA vs Bmore as a whole or at least I thought. and actually Bmore is more dense as a city than LA overall. Despite massive depopulation as opposed to grow like LA. Also you have to shrink Baltimore’s core down to code thing proportionate to 50 square miles in LA -maybe it’s densest 12 square miles. Idk if that would help Bmore though.
Urban vernacular refers to physical asserts of a typical urban style housing, street scape, building materials and layout as had been common in Western nation over the last 250 years. That’s reinforced in our collective consciousness’
Ok. LA is huge though and hard to compare to Baltimore. City to city, of course Baltimore will be more urban. I'm trying to compare urban area to urban area. That's probably not fair to Baltimore, Seattle or even DC though because they have much smaller metro populations. If we factored in metro populations for a "pound for pound" type rating, LA would certainly be last.
Regarding the urban vernacular, keep in mind that LA is going to look different due to earthquake codes. We don't have many brick structures and most that appear to be brick actually use brick only decoratively. The rest are old and have limited types of use due to occupancy restrictions. We have lots of buildings with parking, but that really means that residents have choices. That has everything to do with when they were built, but doesn't diminish the amount of amenities and I see that as a plus.
The core of LA is mostly not strip malls. They are there, but are being replaced by mixed use buildings at an increasing rate. It's mostly stand alone retail and mixed use like everywhere else.
Was just saying what density could be...no LA isn’t just strip malls in the core but density and amenities can and often is in suburban jurisdictions large apartment complex is our towers with a strip plaza nearby near by
Isn’t this what 42k ppsqmi looks like in LA? There’s a steadfast commitment to being suburban or at least underwhelming even in the densest areas . It’s downright weird
LA is often talked about as being polycentric, but in reality it's more non-centric than anything else. It simply doesn't have much of the regions job in any of its major centers. I think that does alter people's perceptions of it when visiting.
Somewhat agree. The region that I identified in the OP is very much both a population and job center. The population skews east and the jobs skew west, but commute patterns show this to be a major destination.
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Yes, LA also lacks many of the basic principles of urban design that people tend to associate with urbanity. DTLA has wide roads and narrow sidewalks,
This is false. I posted road widths in this thread earlier today. LA isn't at Boston level widths, but road widths are comparable to Manhattan in the core. Sidewalks aren't narrow downtown nor even in most of the core. They are comparable widths to Manhattan streets (not avenues), or Brooklyn sidewalks. Anyone that's been to London or especially Paris knows how overrated this is anyway.
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major throughfares are often suburban retail format, strip malls, or single story retail in many areas. Transit is more a "poor people public service" than a lifestyle for most LA residents, though this is slowly changing.
False. Ok. Actually 100% true, but I was on a roll. I think that strip malls and mini malls (they both are disappearing) and their associated curb cuts and parking lots are a huge ding for LA in walk quality. Keep in mind though that the strip malls in LA's core have tiny parking lots and may not what people in other parts of the country may be thinking. LA's perceptions and facts on who uses public transportation are real. I think that this will get better as rail expands outside of poor areas and into job centers. And again these are quality, not quantity indicators.
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You don't have the amount of mixed use density in much of LA the same way you do in older cities like DC, SF, Chicago, etc. Apartment buildings are often car focused, with parking and curb cuts taking up much of the public realm, walking on many streets is often unpleasant as it's so organized around moving more cars quickly.
Can't disagree. I haven't been to Chicago, but I think that if LA had 150,000 more jobs downtown they'd be somewhat similar. I could be way off.
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It's tough because there is some nuance, there's places that don't fit the stereotype completely, but there are also legitimate reasons most Americans and people in other countries find LA to be lacking the "city" and "urban" feel. I can't definitely say it's any one thing, it seems to be death by 1000 cuts. Like thousands of little urban design, architecture, transportation, and public realm deficiencies that add up to make it feel suburban.
Don't disagree, except that I'd argue that things like public transit and design have more to do with the quality (how good it is) of the urbanity, not the quantity (whether it exists).
Was just saying what density could be...no LA isn’t just strip malls in the core but density and amenities can and often is in suburban jurisdictions large apartment complex is our towers with a strip plaza nearby near by
Isn’t this what 42k ppsqmi looks like in LA? There’s a steadfast commitment to being suburban or at least underwhelming even in the densest areas . It’s downright weird
Yes! That's exactly what it looks like. Some streets look more urban and some less, but you captured the essence.
I think that this area grew when streetcars ruled and cars were gaining in appeal and affordability. It adapted as cars became preferred and buildings were torn down to make parking lots, strip malls, and all of the apartment buildings with underground parking. And then it stayed stuck like that for 50 years because LA's regulations for building infill are very suburban oriented (that's where the growth was as LA grew, so that's what the regulations targeted as desirable) and didn't easily allow for infill.
Things have only changed in the last 5 years. And now look at it. You can see a mixed use building under construction in the street view. Here's a map that shows what's happening in that and adjacent areas. There's something under construction or planned on each block in that view.
Yes! That's exactly what it looks like. Some streets look more urban and some less, but you captured the essence.
I think that this area grew when streetcars ruled and cars were gaining in appeal and affordability. It adapted as cars became preferred and buildings were torn down to make parking lots, strip malls, and all of the apartment buildings with underground parking. And then it stayed stuck like that for 50 years because LA's regulations for building infill are very suburban oriented (that's where the growth was as LA grew, so that's what the regulations targeted as desirable) and didn't easily allow for infill.
Things have only changed in the last 5 years. And now look at it. You can see a mixed use building under construction in the street view. Here's a map that shows what's happening in that and adjacent areas. There's something under construction or planned on each block in that view.
I mean...everywhere is developing. The fact that LA is adding more generic urban to its underwhelming core doesnt do it for me. If that 42k ppsqmi in LA its just not particularly engaging and doesn't feel all that different than parts of Vegas or the main drag at Myrtle Beach...I know that sounds harsh its just the vibe I got when there and it still how I feel. Like it feels like as Vegas fills out its gonna be just as dense as LA-im wrong but that just what it looks like on the ground to me. LA is very mature in its buildout.
I mean...everywhere is developing. The fact that LA is adding more generic urban to its underwhelming core doesnt do it for me. If that 42k ppsqmi in LA its just not particularly engaging and doesn't feel all that different than parts of Vegas or the main drag at Myrtle Beach...I know that sounds harsh its just the vibe I got when there and it still how I feel. Like it feels like as Vegas fills out its gonna be just as dense as LA-im wrong but that just what it looks like on the ground to me. LA is very mature in its buildout.
Las Vegas and Myrtle Beach both have a touristy vibe (I wouldn't have recognized MB as it's been decades!) and they drop off to nothing a block or two off the strip.
LA has hundreds of Korean restaurants in a small area. It's very unique and not at all generic. It comes alive mostly at night with dance clubs, Karaoke, coffee houses, restaurants, and bars. People say that Hollywood is the late night capital of LA, but I'm pretty sure that it's Koreatown from what I've seen. I'm not Korean, so it's not a usual spot for me, but I hit up the restaurants and karaoke on occasion.
And it's not just Korean. There are over 125,000 people in just 3 square miles and tens of thousands more every night and double that on weekends. All kinds of different things. I don't think that you can capture the essence of a place like that just driving by. Some of the stuff is in alleys that you can't even see from the road. It's very intense and very out of the ordinary compared to almost anywhere.
Las Vegas and Myrtle Beach both have a touristy vibe (I wouldn't have recognized MB as it's been decades!) and they drop off to nothing a block or two off the strip.
LA has hundreds of Korean restaurants in a small area. It's very unique and not at all generic. It comes alive mostly at night with dance clubs, Karaoke, coffee houses, restaurants, and bars. People say that Hollywood is the late night capital of LA, but I'm pretty sure that it's Koreatown from what I've seen. I'm not Korean, so it's not a usual spot for me, but I hit up the restaurants and karaoke on occasion.
And it's not just Korean. There are over 125,000 people in just 3 square miles and tens of thousands more every night and double that on weekends. All kinds of different things. I don't think that you can capture the essence of a place like that just driving by. Some of the stuff is in alleys that you can't even see from the road. It's very intense and very out of the ordinary compared to almost anywhere.
Sounds Cool. LA gives me slight Cape Town South Africa Vibes.
On a metro level DC is more urban than the Bay Area. As a city SF edges it out.
Honestly, DC and LA are not on the same planet when it comes to urbanity. I guess Seattle could go either way, however on a per person basis its certainly more urban than LA.
The DC metro is arguably the South not the Eastcoast..
It's nowhere near LA metro from an urban standpoint.
I don't get much of an LA vibe from the rest. Several remind me more of New Orleans than anywhere else in the US.
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