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Houston influence outside of Texas basically is southwestern Louisiana and west central Louisiana. In Texas, it does each south towards Corpus. It starts to overlap when it comes to Southeastern LA and southern Mississippi. I would say NO is the influence as it’s a skip and a hop but Houston out of the four major cities has an influence more than the other four on the Mississippi and perhaps maybe the Alabama Gulf Coast due to similar Gulf Coast culture. Really Mississippi is where the spheres of Atlanta, Dallas, Memphis, Houston, and New Orleans meets. Northern Mississippi is probably influenced more by Memphis as it has always been for the last century. But Vicksburg I can see a bit of Dallas in there.
I wouldn’t be quick to say all of Arkansas looks to Dallas. Memphis, St Louis, and to a smaller extent, Chicago, are probably seen as the big city for NE Arkansas. As far as Miami, once you get north of Orlando and Vero Beach, the influence rapidly wanes. It’s pretty much gone once you get to Gainesville. Atlanta or Tampa influences more here.
Arkansas point is fair, so I'll say this:
The extreme northeast corner of Arkansas has a St Louis lean, and most of the Arkansas Delta has a Memphis lean. Within this is some overlap. In Little Rock, Chicago has a muted presence, but one exists. Memphis is the nearest "big" city so it has a strong geographical pull but years ago, surprisingly, I saw that Dallas has equivalent pull despite being further away. More Central Arkansans trip to Memphis because its closer, but more Central Arkansans move to Dallas, its actually a pretty fascinating thing to watch. Culturally Little Rock is about an even blend of both Memphis and Dallas, Dallas area sports are way more relevant in Little Rock, Little Rock music sounds more like Dallas than Memphis, etc...
Chicago does have some influence as enough people have ties to Chicago and there is 'some' Chicago sports interest, but its influence in the Little Rock area is smaller than both Memphis and Dallas. Chicago's influence is heavy by the time you're actually in Memphis itself, which itself is strongly influenced by Chicago first, then St Louis...
However, west of Little Rock, from spending time in Hot Springs and Texarkana, the Dallas influence just continues to grow. So maybe i shouldn't say Dallas is the city for all of Arkansas, but I think the fact its the most popular city in Arkansas' largest region, and has influence for most places west of there, I think most of Arkansas' population fits inside Dallas' sphere of influence, with some variance the further east and possibly northwest you go!
I'm only really familiar with Northern Mississippi (the Delta to Tupelo), I can say I've never seen any major influence to those areas besides Memphis and Chicago (with a slight lean to Birmingham in Tupelo). Jackson itself i think is more inclined towards both Memphis and Chicago than anywhere else, and I'd argue Chicago has as much influence in Mississippi as any of the Big 4...
Good looking out on mapping Houston for me!
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Originally Posted by Spade
No it isn’t. You put Southside Virginia on there. Nowhere in VA does it look up to Atlanta as the major city over DC unless you’re talking about the extreme southern tip of SW Virginia. You didn’t even link Virginia either.
He didn't even do that lol. This avatar calls of Virginia "south Virginia", which is neither a geographical, cultural, or historical terminology associated with The Commonwealth. I'm not sure dude has ever spent any relevant time in Virginia, certainly not in the populated areas, because it wouldn't take long at all to realize Atlanta has virtually no presence on Virginians...
Sure Augusta has some but Savannah is obviously steeped in it the most.
The average person makes no such distinction between what? The colonial history and culture between Savannah and Atlanta or Savannah and Augusta? I'd disagree no matter which two you are comparing but I'd like some clarity.
Atlanta isn't Valdosta and nobody has said as much. Among the cities under discussion here, it is definitely the most characteristically Southern whose history and identity are based on widely-recognized Southern themes and cultural markers.
I don't agree and can't effectively be proven wrong here.
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This entire subforum is dedicated to the art of hair-splitting. We permanently reside in the weeds in these parts and you know this. Come on...
Clearly recognize it. Not interested in doing it as it's unnecessary. You just want to argue, man.
Your very first post seemed to decide that the thread should be ended after a couple of Atlanta answers, so it does seem you think I should agree with you. But the poll results show I'm not the only one with the answer I gave, so I stand by it. New Orleans may not check all of your boxes, but it meets enough of the OPs parameters for "capital"
You are right. I guess i meant from a socially economic perspective maybe CA Hispanics areeven more nuanced than TX but they have more similarities as well.
Geez. You are Texan.
Texas is just "Texas" only to people from Texas but maybe the exception of Californians, if you are in the Northeast ,Midwest or South , Texans are Southern despite what Texans think of themselves
That is how Texans like it. Texans also understand their southern history. But they also realize that they are Texan just as much.
If you live in DC, MD NC, SC, VA or WV, basically the northern end of the census-designated south, you deal with the Richmond Fed Bank, which is the 4th largest in assets behind ATL. The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond covers MD, NC, SC, VA, and WV as well.
If you live in TX, Northwest Louisiana and NM your Fed bank is in Dallas. The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans also covers LA, MS, TX.
I only point this out to reel in a little of the Atlanta braggadocio in terms of its primacy in the south. It's definitely the southeast's most clear cultural center, but it's not a NY or LA (of the south). The South is probably too large and diverse of a region with strong competing nodes, none head and shoulders above the others, to really comfortably designate a capital.
This exactly what I'm saying.
Atlanta's dominance is often overstated and people have to realize the south and the southeast are not the same thing
The Texas is just Texas talk is just stupid.
Apart from Alaska and Hawaii, no other states are add isolated enough to be is own thing.
Texas is southern and that is that.
Unless Texas goes back to being a republic.
BTW Vermont, Florida, California, Oregon and others were all their own countries for short periods of time.
Anyway the south is just too massive and doesn't have a clear metro with an oversized area of influence over the others.
Charlotte and Nashville is to Atlanta as San Antonio and Austin is to Houston.
That is how Texans like it. Texans also understand their southern history. But they also realize that they are Texan just as much.
Lol. Sure. Whatever.Texans are acting like New Yorkers(city). All and allTexas unlike New York chares its identity like other areas in the Southwest.New Mexico is different than Oklahoma.
I had to Google to make sure I understood which states were in the Southwest. Like Utah.
I dont think most people have a problem defining what states are in the South. Texas may be Southwestern but is much more Southern than Western like say California or Nevada.
Texas is unique in size,but not much else like most states in the US.
If you live in DC, MD NC, SC, VA or WV, basically the northern end of the census-designated south, you deal with the Richmond Fed Bank, which is the 4th largest in assets behind ATL. The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond covers MD, NC, SC, VA, and WV as well.
If you live in TX, Northwest Louisiana and NM your Fed bank is in Dallas. The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans also covers LA, MS, TX.
I only point this out to reel in a little of the Atlanta braggadocio in terms of its primacy in the south. It's definitely the southeast's most clear cultural center, but it's not a NY or LA (of the south). The South is probably too large and diverse of a region with strong competing nodes, none head and shoulders above the others, to really comfortably designate a capital.
Again :THERE IS NO CAPITAL OF THE SOUTH! BUT
If it wasn't Atlanta then why are you in such the minority of opinion?
A city doesnt have to be New York to to be considered more of a standout than others.
New York. is unique anyway, Its influence is multi directional and global from in many areas and across teh US.
Atlanta has the music that is global. Texas but not specifically a city has its Southwestern food
that is across teh nation but not really global.We are talking about cities NOT a state,so if you cant ick one city then thats your answer.
If this was about states,then it would be harder. Maybe VA would win.
Atlanta is not economically anywhere near New York or even culturally . The largest cities in the South are in the same league economically. Atlanta's cultural output and influence reaches beyond regions and even internationally.
Music but also black culture. Even some people in Africa and the Caribbean know about Atlanta because of long historical ties.
Blacks make up a significant part of the population of US and Atlanta will win in any forum or poll if you ask a wide range of Black people about Atlanta.Even if its negative.
I think Atlanta is a blind spot for non whites who dont live in Atlanta. I see it like how Tyler Perry was well known in the black community for years and when his first MAdea movie was number one in box office that year, and every non white person I know had no idea who he was . Neither did Hollywood when they didnt want to buy his movie idea ,so he did it himself.
So I get
This exactly what I'm saying.
Atlanta's dominance is often overstated and people have to realize the south and the southeast are not the same thing
The fact taht you have to say they have to realize they are not is the point why Atlanta is the clear choice. People WOULD realize if they thought there was a more logical choice.
The SOUTH has a specific identity and no other city comes to mind for most but Atlanta.
As mentioned before the South for some can mean the traditional South but for others the New South,
Atlanta is teh place where the New South entered and lefy the Old South behind . Kind of like a make over.Always apart of its history and culture which it shared for many years but now in teh New South its not by itself but is the clear leader in many people eyes even off CD.
Not bragging, Just facts
The south is an expansive area, and the sunbelt cities have grown dramatically over the past twenty years.
Each have a dominance in different ways, but they also are more alike, than different, all sharing a strong southern culture and historic influence.
Therefore what major southern city would you consider to be the "Capital of the South" based on the following?
Most Southern History:
Most Southern Charm:
COL:
QOL:
Geographic Proximity:
Economy:
Suburbs:
Food/Cuisine:
Downtowns:
Scenery:
Most success next decade:
Transportation:
Things to do:
Lowest Crime:
Climate:
Suburbs:
Arts/Culture:
Let me guess....you are from Atlanta, GA.
That said, New Orleans is the capital of the South. It is historically most representative of the South. Culturally, it represents the best of the South. The rest of the criteria are nonsense. Capital cities are not always the biggest or bestest. They should encapsulate history, culture, and emotion. that is NOT Atlanta, which makes a great capital of Georgia but is hardly representative of the rest of the South. North Carolina, Virginia, Texas, South Carolina could care less about Georgia. New Orleans, on the other hand, stands above the rest -- it's not the capital of Louisiana -- it represents the South.
This exactly what I'm saying.
Atlanta's dominance is often overstated and people have to realize the south and the southeast are not the same thing
People have to realize that Georgia is not the South. Economically, culturally...Texas, the Carolinas, Tennessee, and Virginia can kick Georgia's backside. We all have actual mountains and beaches, and a diversity of cities and economic centers. We all have our own culinary and cultural reputations (aside from peaches - which South Carolina actually produces more of - what is Georgia's culinary contribution to history? Coke? No thanks.)
The South is like the Northeast -- but Atlanta is not now and never will be as important as New York City in spite of what the bloviators at the Chamber of Commerce think.
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