What city (outside of New England) is the most comparable to Providence? (rates, crime rate)
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It’s kind of like there are two Providences. The Brown/Capitol/Providence Place part of the city as a stark contrast to the 25% poverty rate nonwhite blighted rest of the city. I’d have to go with Baltimore as the city with that kind of contrast. I wanted to point to a New Jersey city but they don’t have the same contrast.
Newark, whose downtown isn't as nice as Providence's — as of now, but they're working on it — would be my first choice too. It's a decent-sized city with its own character and assets that sits in the shadow of a much bigger city close by. That particular attribute of Baltimore is also probably what invites comparisons with that city.
But believe it or not, there's a thread going on in this same subforum, I think, where someone who has relatives in Providence who moved to Kansas City actually said that those two cities are an awful lot alike and that his RI-expat relatives draw comparisons between the two all the time.
As a Kansas City native who's spent time in Providence, I'm kinda hard-pressed to see the parallels, but I think there are some. Higher ed isn't one of them, for while the Kansas City Art Institute is highly regarded and probably on the same plane as RISD quality-wise, the Rhode Island school enjoys a higher national profile and reputation, and the Kansas City area has no answer to Brown University.
Both cities, however, have downtowns that ceased to function as shopping hubs and have found new life as entertainment centers. They also have faded yet colorful ethnic neighborhoods and sharp contrasts between a robust, lively side of town and a disheveled, disinvested one.
I had suggested to the person making this comparison that his Providence friends encourage the owners to open (or find someone who will convince the owners to franchise) an "Olneyville New York System" hot dog stand in KC. That's a uniquely Providence eatery that I actually think would travel well beyond Rhode Island, more so than Cincinnati chili has, for instance.
The thing that won’t travel well is the Shandy. Dell’s lemonade and Narragansett beer. The most vile concoction known to man. LOL
I guess I haven’t been in Newark recently enough to compare what I remember to College Hill, Providence Place, and the State House area. I have no memory of anything remotely that upscale. Around Brown has been nice since the 1970s and it’s expanded significantly over the last 25 years.
This is all accurate but Baltimore feels too large and brick/stone and blighted. I actually voted Oakland, which probably isn't better than Baltimore *shrug*
Yeah..the analogy isn't perfect. Baltimore is clearly bigger and is architecturally different with it's wooden triple decker urbanism. But, I think the functional size gap is smaller then the headline numbers.
Providence's walkable urbanism spills over into neighboring cities, so I think it punches a little above it's weight. Outside the north east, it would probably be a city of 300 or 400k people.
More controversially, functionally, Baltimore may punch a little below it's weight given the poverty and disinvestment in many areas. There are large swathes of the city that are losing population and don't really attract outsiders. That isn't a knock on the people that live in those areas, but just a statement of reality that nonresidents have as much reason to visit them as your typical suburban neighborhood.
Then there is the fact that it's in a CSA of nearly 8 million in the north east megalopolis. Metro areas just sort of run together in a way places like Syracuse or Kansas City don't.
It's also not so contiguous with the main CSA city that you can easily go back in forth the way Oakland or Newark are.
The thing that won’t travel well is the Shandy. Dell’s lemonade and Narragansett beer. The most vile concoction known to man. LOL
I guess I haven’t been in Newark recently enough to compare what I remember to College Hill, Providence Place, and the State House area. I have no memory of anything remotely that upscale. Around Brown has been nice since the 1970s and it’s expanded significantly over the last 25 years.
Are you aware that the Narragansett beer brand was revived with the help of a Philadelphia-based marketing company?
Originally an advertising agency called Gyro Worldwide, the firm changed its name to Quaker City Mercantile sometime around 2000 and decided to focus exclusively on the alcoholic beverage industry. They not only produce marketing, branding and advertising campaigns for brewers and distillers, they distill sprits themselves: if you've ever had Hendricks gin or Sailor Jerry spiced rum, you've bought one of their products. They also run a bottle shop for which they distill spirits in Old City called Art in the Age (originally a gallery called Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction).
The company has a 19th-century sensibility (as their logo and graphics should indicate) but a 21st-century knowledge of the market.
You are right, though, that Newark has no analog to College Hill, Providence Place mall or the Statehouse area, and they don't set lights afire in the Passaic River either. But it seems to me that every possible match for Providence is an inexact one at best — that city has a truly unique personality, character and spirit, in all likelihood arising from its status as Rhode Island's principal metropolis (sheesh, sole metropolis. Weep therefore for New Jersey, which is to a great extent a wholly-owned subsidiary of the two large cities that sit just across the Hudson and Delaware rivers from it.
And as for shandy, well, several brewers now make their own. Leinenkugel's of Milwaukee is one.
St Paul and Providence are both hybrids of college town and blue collar liberal (which is relatively rare in this country). They are also both ports with Providence being on the ocean and St Paul being the terminus of navigation on the Mississippi. They are also both overshadowed by their larger neighbor.
Tacoma may be another city that should be in the mix.
I do think a big part of Providence’s identity is being part of a greater area. Southeastern New England. Cities like Rochester, Newark, Milwaukee and somewhat Richmond and Syracuse all share this factor. They are the center of everything. There is another city that is the cultural/social even economic hud that its oriented towards but not dominated by or part of.
This dynamic pretty much excludes KC, or Cincinnati since their their own world. Oakland and St Paul are much too tightly bound their metropole.
Newark is very international like Providence and also shares a distinction of being a state’s primary city. But it lacks that creative/artsy vibe and University presence.
Like I said prior I want to say Syracuse but I feel like it’s a bit too College Towny and a bit too small. It physically resembles New England a lot with rolling hills and it’s housing style. And Syracuse University studentsxdo mostly come from the NE corridor so there is a lot of physical interaction between Syracuse and the Southern New England area. PC and Syracuse Universitty both mean March Masness is a very big deal in these cities.
In terms of pure urban heft and overall size, Rochester is a pretty perfect match. But is culturally a Great Lakes City. It has the similar dynamic to Buffalo that Providence has to Boston only a little less economically because Buffalo’s job market is weak. They both ave elite Universities (U of R and Brown) as well as art schools downtown (RISD, Eastman) a milling past. Providence is more international by a lot though but Rochester has a stronger upmarket Job market.
I do think a big part of Providence’s identity is being part of a greater area. Southeastern New England. Cities like Rochester, Newark, Milwaukee and somewhat Richmond and Syracuse all share this factor. They are the center of everything. There is another city that is the cultural/social even economic hud that its oriented towards but not dominated by or part of.
This dynamic pretty much excludes KC, or Cincinnati since their their own world. Oakland and St Paul are much too tightly bound their metropole.
Newark is very international like Providence and also shares a distinction of being a state’s primary city. But it lacks that creative/artsy vibe and University presence.
Like I said prior I want to say Syracuse but I feel like it’s a bit too College Towny and a bit too small. It physically resembles New England a lot with rolling hills and it’s housing style. And Syracuse University studentsxdo mostly come from the NE corridor so there is a lot of physical interaction between Syracuse and the Southern New England area. PC and Syracuse Universitty both mean March Masness is a very big deal in these cities.
In terms of pure urban heft and overall size, Rochester is a pretty perfect match. But is culturally a Great Lakes City. It has the similar dynamic to Buffalo that Providence has to Boston only a little less economically because Buffalo’s job market is weak. They both ave elite Universities (U of R and Brown) as well as art schools downtown (RISD, Eastman) a milling past. Providence is more international by a lot though but Rochester has a stronger upmarket Job market.
Not a bad analysis at all.
But the more this thread continues, the more I think the conclusion is, "There is no place in the United States that is quite like Providence."
But the more this thread continues, the more I think the conclusion is, "There is no place in the United States that is quite like Providence."
I think that’s generally true. Providence e did grow up very isolated culturally for 150 years as well as intentionally culturally distinct from its nearest neighbor.
It’s less cohesive than say the Great Lakes which basically alll grew as one economic system within a generation or so
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