The two "dominant" cities in select states- which is the better one? (Los Angeles, people)
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Not really wanting to open a can of worms here but couldn't one simply argue that DC is the dominant city in VA, even though it's not in VA? The NoVa suburbs tend to control the state in terms of politics and economics, and regionally it dwarfs all other Virginian locales.
Bruh, this perceptive angle you're speaking from is your own...
•Northern Virginia "dominates" Virginia in the eyes of non-Virginians or transplanted Nova'ns. Nova isn't a major topic of conversation in any Virginia area outside of Nova...
I think the issue is Virginia is inching ever closer to a Kansas situation where the dominant city is outside its borders. KC metro is the largest metro area in the state, but Wichita is the largest homegrown metro and Topeka the capital.
A breakdown on the numbers. 36.5% of Kansans live in the greater KC area, while Wichita metro has 23.2% of the Kansas population. How a Kansan feels about their dominant city is probably a matter of perspective. In a similar vein, NoVa accounts for 37% of Virginia’s population, the greater Hampton Roads 20.2% of Virginia, and Richmond about 15.1%. Richmond has historically been the center of the state, but as Virginia is now a majority transplant state, history means less. But it’s all about perspective, so I’m not sure there is a right answer here.
So, maybe if the rest of Virginia views NOVA as being that alien from the rest of Virginia, then that might be a clue that NOVA is actually the dominant area of the state, unlike any other.
The rest of Virginia doesn't look at Nova as alien, though...
I'll be back in here when I have more time later, but the idea the rest of Va views Nova as "alien" is an internet thing I've only seen on this site. I'm from Virginia. This website has years of history of transplants and unaffiliated posters speaking outta turn about Virginia. I'll be back later, but trust me on this one...
Not really wanting to open a can of worms here but couldn't one simply argue that DC is the dominant city in VA, even though it's not in VA? The NoVa suburbs tend to control the state in terms of politics and economics, and regionally it dwarfs all other Virginian locales.
That's partially my point. I'm not talking about any one area in NovA I'm talking about NOVA. It doesn't matter that it isn't one city or that it's actually mostly suburban sprawl from DC, my point is that Northern Virginia is the most dominant populated area in the state. Outside of CD (read: out in the real world) nobody cares that Fairfax is a hyper-suburb. Or nearby Arlington, a county of about 240,000 and isn't even an incorporated city but if it was it would be as large as Norfolk and Richmond. But nobody cares that it's not actually a city, it is simply one of the more developed urban areas in the entire state. Moreso than Richmond or Norfolk.
And you're right (I'll give you a lot of props for remembering so much about me, that's actually really impressive) I'm from Colorado. In Colorado you have Denver and that's about it as far as big cities go. It's going to be the first CITY you think of when someone mentions Colorado. I'm not convinced anyone outside of Virginia thinks of Richmond or Norfolk first when they think of Virginia Cities. NoVa steals the show. NoVA decides all the elections here. NoVA has the states two largest airports. I'm not looking up economic data but I'd be willing to guess NoVa's economy is larger than either Richmond or Norfolk (and that's saying a lot because the shipping industry in Hampton Roads is huge).
I also don't think this is an outsider perspective. I know plenty of lifelong Virginia residents who feel the same way. I think Richmond/Norfolk will get props on CD because they are more traditionally/historically urban. Places like that are valued more here, but the large segment of population that doesn't check in on CD forums probably doesn't care or even notice. Northern Virginia, despite not being an actual city, is a much more dominant and influential national-level city. You can't pretend it's not there. It is by far the largest and most influential population center in Virginia.
As for "highest esteem" that isn't the topic. The topic is most dominant.
When you changed "city" to "population center" I agreed with your point when I was going to quibble with it when you talked about what cities people associate with Virginia.
Maybe the distinction is semantic, but I am disinclined to think so: a "city" is a political entity that people refer to as such every bit as much as it's also a shorthand for a metropolitan region, and in the case of NoVa in that latter sense, the "city" it's part of is Washington, which is not in Virginia. I doubt that were you to ask some outsider to name Virginia cities, "Arlington" or "Fairfax" would roll off their tongues the way "Richmond" or "Norfolk" would. (Politically, Arlington may be a county, but in form and function now, it may as well be a city.) I've seen and read commentary to the effect that many Virginians south of Spottsylvania County now regard Northern Virginia as an entirely different state.
Not really wanting to open a can of worms here but couldn't one simply argue that DC is the dominant city in VA, even though it's not in VA? The NoVa suburbs tend to control the state in terms of politics and economics, and regionally it dwarfs all other Virginian locales.
Could be argued and is said so in some convos depending on context...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heel82
I think the issue is Virginia is inching ever closer to a Kansas situation where the dominant city is outside its borders. KC metro is the largest metro area in the state, but Wichita is the largest homegrown metro and Topeka the capital.
A breakdown on the numbers. 36.5% of Kansans live in the greater KC area, while Wichita metro has 23.2% of the Kansas population. How a Kansan feels about their dominant city is probably a matter of perspective. In a similar vein, NoVa accounts for 37% of Virginia’s population, the greater Hampton Roads 20.2% of Virginia, and Richmond about 15.1%. Richmond has historically been the center of the state, but as Virginia is now a majority transplant state, history means less. But it’s all about perspective, so I’m not sure there is a right answer here.
You're right, and what I'm telling you is in the perception of most Virginians, Nova isn't registered as VA's "dominant city". This is an internet, most specifically, a City-Data, thing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
I've seen and read commentary to the effect that many Virginians south of Spottsylvania County now regard Northern Virginia as an entirely different state.
I'm not convinced anyone outside of Virginia thinks of Richmond or Norfolk first when they think of Virginia Cities. NoVa steals the show.
I wouldn't go quite that far. Even when people are actually thinking about metropolitan areas as a whole when talking about particular cities, there's still an identification of the metro based on the name of its most prominent city. If you were to ask an "average joe" what city first comes to mind when they think of Virginia, a good bit would mention Richmond or Norfolk. "NoVa" or "Northern Virginia" is not a name widely recognized on the same level as established cities and I'd say that anyone outside of the mid-Atlantic or without ties to the region that were to mention the region in response to the question would explain their answer by making note of its status as suburban DC within Virginia that lacks a dominant urban city itself. It's not like NJ where the two largest cities in the state are actual cities that also happen to be part of its largest metropolitan area. There's no explanation needed that distinguishes city from metropolitan area for anyone that answers Newark or Jersey City when it comes to NJ, but for VA, the answer most would give would be some version of NoVA/metro DC; Richmond; or Norfolk/VA Beach with an explanation attached.
When you changed "city" to "population center" I agreed with your point when I was going to quibble with it when you talked about what cities people associate with Virginia.
Maybe the distinction is semantic, but I am disinclined to think so: a "city" is a political entity that people refer to as such every bit as much as it's also a shorthand for a metropolitan region, and in the case of NoVa in that latter sense, the "city" it's part of is Washington, which is not in Virginia. I doubt that were you to ask some outsider to name Virginia cities, "Arlington" or "Fairfax" would roll off their tongues the way "Richmond" or "Norfolk" would.
I'd rep you if I could for making the same point I was trying to make but you did so much more succinctly.
I think the issue is Virginia is inching ever closer to a Kansas situation where the dominant city is outside its borders. KC metro is the largest metro area in the state, but Wichita is the largest homegrown metro and Topeka the capital.
A breakdown on the numbers. 36.5% of Kansans live in the greater KC area, while Wichita metro has 23.2% of the Kansas population. How a Kansan feels about their dominant city is probably a matter of perspective. In a similar vein, NoVa accounts for 37% of Virginia’s population, the greater Hampton Roads 20.2% of Virginia, and Richmond about 15.1%. Richmond has historically been the center of the state, but as Virginia is now a majority transplant state, history means less. But it’s all about perspective, so I’m not sure there is a right answer here.
And given that Lawrence and Topeka are both within an hour's drive of downtown Kansas City, I think you might find that the Northeast Kansas conurbation (Lawrence recently became part of the KC CSA) may account for almost half the state's population.
I know from reading William Least Heat-Moon's book "PrairyErth: a deep map," which was devoted entirely to the history, geography and culture of Chase County, near the center of Kansas, that many Kansans regard Johnson County, home to all of KCMo's most affluent suburbs, as somewhat alien as well (and Wyandotte County [Kansas City, Kan.] is definitely alien — it's a Democratic county in a Republican state and an industrial center in a state where agriculture rules), so IMO your point on perspective is well taken.
That's partially my point. I'm not talking about any one area in NovA I'm talking about NOVA. It doesn't matter that it isn't one city or that it's actually mostly suburban sprawl from DC, my point is that Northern Virginia is the most dominant populated area in the state. Outside of CD (read: out in the real world) nobody cares that Fairfax is a hyper-suburb. Or nearby Arlington, a county of about 240,000 and isn't even an incorporated city but if it was it would be as large as Norfolk and Richmond. But nobody cares that it's not actually a city, it is simply one of the more developed urban areas in the entire state. Moreso than Richmond or Norfolk.
And you're right (I'll give you a lot of props for remembering so much about me, that's actually really impressive) I'm from Colorado. In Colorado you have Denver and that's about it as far as big cities go. It's going to be the first CITY you think of when someone mentions Colorado. I'm not convinced anyone outside of Virginia thinks of Richmond or Norfolk first when they think of Virginia Cities. NoVa steals the show. NoVA decides all the elections here. NoVA has the states two largest airports. I'm not looking up economic data but I'd be willing to guess NoVa's economy is larger than either Richmond or Norfolk (and that's saying a lot because the shipping industry in Hampton Roads is huge).
I also don't think this is an outsider perspective. I know plenty of lifelong Virginia residents who feel the same way. I think Richmond/Norfolk will get props on CD because they are more traditionally/historically urban. Places like that are valued more here, but the large segment of population that doesn't check in on CD forums probably doesn't care or even notice. Northern Virginia, despite not being an actual city, is a much more dominant and influential national-level city. You can't pretend it's not there. It is by far the largest and most influential population center in Virginia.
As for "highest esteem" that isn't the topic. The topic is most dominant.
So much to unpack here...
In the real world, outside of CD, the average person doesn't distinguish Nova from Virginia. How do I know this? I'm a California native who has lived in 7 states with family across even more and I've traveled this country more extensively than most people, 30 states visited...
Within Virginia, Virginians recognize Northern Virginia as Virginia, because that's what it is, and when you live in areas outside Nova you see the uniquely Virginian characteristics that tie Nova to the rest of The Commonwealth, particularly the other two populated areas...
I'm not buying that you know "many" Virginians who share your outsider's, transplant perspective. I've been here too long, in all three of the major areas, to know that your stance isn't shared by "many" native or longtime Virginians. You're not talking to a typical CD poster who reads data sheets and has no substantive knowledge of Virginia, you're talking to an actual Virginian who grew up here who you can't pull the wool over...
The large segment of the real world outside of CD doesn't distinguish Nova from the rest of the state and can't name anything about Nova besides it being a DC suburb, but nice try...
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