More Urban and Less Suburban: New Orleans vs. Miami? (live, best, better)
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Going by that 110% New Orleans.
It's far easier to manage everyday activities on foot in Nola than Miami.
NOLA lacks the new mass transit systems in Miami, but with the more human scale of New Orleans you don't miss it.
The system of streetcars combined with very narrow streets and a ton of mixed use buildings makes NOLA feel more urban at street level even without major mass transit
The human-scale and mix-use are crucial because not a lot of American cities have it to super strong extents, even those that are viewed as urban on this forum. The bulk of core fabric in New Orleans was constructed through the 1800s, meaning that it escaped the restrictions imposed by the modern standards of zoning in this country. The result is environment reminiscent of the "Old World," particularly that of the European sphere.
With greater incorporation of human-scale and mix-use, the surge of modern construction over at Miami would have much more likening to developments that have been seen over in Asia, as well as Brazil to an extent. And speaking of Asia...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
Dubai is proof that just because you have more tall buildings does not mean you favor pedestrians over cars. This is about city design.
Is Dubai really that autocentric? I've heard that this was more true in the past, when the developments there were first getting established, and centered around the flashy megaprojects seen in the area. But they have seen additions with regards to rapid transit, as well as walkable footpaths and districts in-between.
Is Dubai really that autocentric? I've heard that this was more true in the past, when the developments there were first getting established, and centered around the flashy megaprojects seen in the area. But they have seen additions with regards to rapid transit, as well as walkable footpaths and districts in-between.
The extreme heat always works against public transit. Houston is still majority autocentric, despite having the largest bus fleet in the South. Phoenix is the only major American desert city comparable with the major Middle East desert cities.
Air Conditioning, both at-home and in-the-car, is the defining characteristic of a Sunbelt city. The preference of automobiles driven by air conditioning demands during the long warm season has embroidered the post-war autocentric layout on the urban fabric.
For New Orleans, the south side of the lake is the old urban portion that contains the blighted areas that surround the tourist areas. The affluent have decamped to the relatively inaccessible (a toll bridge that is the longest bridge in the world) North Shore, which is at sea level (unlike the sunken urban area) and inland. It pales in comparison with any Houston suburb.
The extreme heat always works against public transit. Houston is still majority autocentric, despite having the largest bus fleet in the South. Phoenix is the only major American desert city comparable with the major Middle East desert cities.
Air Conditioning, both at-home and in-the-car, is the defining characteristic of a Sunbelt city. The preference of automobiles driven by air conditioning demands during the long warm season has embroidered the post-war autocentric layout on the urban fabric.
For New Orleans, the south side of the lake is the old urban portion that contains the blighted areas that surround the tourist areas. The affluent have decamped to the relatively inaccessible (a toll bridge that is the longest bridge in the world) North Shore, which is at sea level (unlike the sunken urban area) and inland. It pales in comparison with any Houston suburb.
The affluent live in Uptown and Lakeview many middle class folks move to the northshore. And not many of the neighborhoods surrounding the Quarter and CBD are blighted. Gentrifiers made sure to kick those folks out after Katrina.
I like New Orleans, but I don't get why it's rated so highly as an urban city on C-D. It's old school urban in central parts, like around the French Quarter, but that's a small part and when you get much outside of that in many ways it becomes very reminiscent of cities throughout the south. It's Memphis basically. New Orleans only has a little over 2,000 ppsm after all.
I like New Orleans, but I don't get why it's rated so highly as an urban city on C-D. It's old school urban in central parts, like around the French Quarter, but that's a small part and when you get much outside of that in many ways it becomes very reminiscent of cities throughout the south. It's Memphis basically. New Orleans only has a little over 2,000 ppsm after all.
You probably don't understand it because you have not tried doing everyday things on foot. Try going grocery shopping on foot or living one area to grab food in the next. Or try just going to the zoo or a park. Do those things and compare doing them on foot in Miami and you will definitely get the difference.
And it's not just the areas around the French quarter.
Orleans Parish to Metairie is all rather compact. It's the west Bank burbs that look lie or parts of the south.
Going by average density you don't get an accurate picture. Even New Orleans Parish has huge swarths of lands to the east and north east that are not suitable for building on. The city True density in the city would probably
Take a look at the make up of the city/County limits.
The inhabitable area looks to be about 20%. That would put the habitable area over 10k ppsm and higher than Miami with a built form a lot more human scale than Miami which makes it more urban.
You probably don't understand it because you have not tried doing everyday things on foot. Try going grocery shopping on foot or living one area to grab food in the next. Or try just going to the zoo or a park. Do those things and compare doing them on foot in Miami and you will definitely get the difference.
And it's not just the areas around the French quarter.
Orleans Parish to Metairie is all rather compact. It's the west Bank burbs that look lie or parts of the south.
Going by average density you don't get an accurate picture. Even New Orleans Parish has huge swarths of lands to the east and north east that are not suitable for building on. The city True density in the city would probably
Take a look at the make up of the city/County limits.
The inhabitable area looks to be about 20%. That would put the habitable area over 10k ppsm and higher than Miami with a built form a lot more human scale than Miami which makes it more urban.
I retract my earlier comment. I have walked around NO outside the French Quarter though I didn't grocery shop. Just walked.
I looked up zip code populations and they show that Miami is more dense and has more people living in dense zip codes (the densest NO zip codes are centrally located and don't include uninhabitable land), but it shows that New Orleans is closer to Miami than it is to Memphis. Kind of in the middle, but it has much higher peaks. My personal opinion is that it's nothing special outside the French Quarter, but that's just my opinion.
Of course Miami has more populated zip codes.
You can pack a ton more people in condo towers than on densely packed single family.
My point was that the urban form in NOLA is more on a human scale and where I mentioned density was to show that the density you mentioned was for the entire county limits which is majority uninhibited land.
Miami is built up because it has tall buildings, but it doesn't feel all that urban. New Orleans doesn't have anywhere near as many towers but it feels a ton more traditionally urban.
I don't know why on citydata people think tall buildings means urban. Urban is more of function than form.
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Maybe because rural and most suburban areas don’t have concentration of tall buildings, which often are associated with urban areas (see NYC, Chi, etc and, yes, Miami).
That being said I lost track of the number of times people on CD have incredulously said there is no pedestrian (or bicycle) traffic or urban feel in “tall building” Brickell—there certainly is, if not at NYC, Chi or SF levels....there also are urban areas in Miami that are not dominated by tall buildings—South Beach, mid Beach, Wynwood, Design District, Calle Ocho (Little Havana), Coconut Grove (which would be considered an urban neighborhood in Portland or Dallas yet somehow does not count as one in Miami).
That’s not to say there aren’t tall building areas with nothing to walk to either (Millionaires Row, Sunny Isles, Edgewater etc) and most/all of inland Miami away from the ocean coast or bay is suburban.
Last edited by elchevere; 04-11-2021 at 11:07 AM..
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