Will Atlanta become the 5th largest metropolitan area in the country? (compare, bigger)

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by Columbus1984

Lol just jealous his state is booming and Commiefornia is bleeding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._States_by_GDP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_population

Uh, California has no state to be jealous of, especially not any of the hot and humid, socio-politically backwards southern states. California's economy is larger than India, and the UK, and France, and Australia. It's about the economic size of South America.

[roadwarrior101]

As a Californian who almost moved to Atlanta a few years ago for a job opportunity, I think the trends will continue. What I think appealed to me about Atlanta was the following:

-Lower risk of national disasters (no earthquakes, out of the main tornado belt, inland enough to escape the worst of hurricane impacts, wet enough to not have major fire concerns)
-Plentiful water supply. I know there have been droughts in the past, but that's NOTHING compared to what we get here in the west
-Lack of extreme weather. Warmer than the upper Midwest, cooler than the Southwest or even the gulf coast. I know it does get pretty humid, but that season is shorter and it's aided by being on the Piedmont Plateau.
-Lots of room to expand radius of metro area. You're not constrained as you are here by ocean, mountains, etc. If it becomes too expensive in the middle of Atlanta, you can find something much more affordable in the exurbs
-Hub for the Southeast. This appeals to businesses, including the traditional F500 companies (Coca Cola, Delta, etc.) but also now more Tech companies
-Educated workforce. Lots of universities plus people relocating for jobs, lifestyle, cost of living
-Turning more progressive. I know that doesn't appeal to everyone but it certainly does to many of us considering relocation from the West or East Coast hubs

Not sure how quickly it'll get to the 5th most populated Metro Area, when you consider the CSA's of Washington-Baltimore and SF-Oakland-San Jose, both areas between 9-10 million and growing (although slower than Atlanta). But, I would expect Atlanta to continue moving up the ranks.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by Columbus1984

Lol just jealous his state is booming and Commiefornia is bleeding.

You have me confused with someone else, it isn't possible for me to be jealous of anything related to Texas - I don't even like changing planes there. And we have our own boom going on to begin with. And just so you know, California mops the floor with Texas.

[Columbus1984]

Originally Posted by JMatl

You have me confused with someone else, it isn't possible for me to be jealous of anything related to Texas - I don't even like changing planes there. And we have our own boom going on to begin with. And just so you know, California mops the floor with Texas.

Lol. Yet you live in Georgia. A state that thinks just like Texas lol.

[First24]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Undoubtedly it does create challenges, but it is not the primary cause of the infrastructural issues in Atlanta metro. Again these growth rates are not foreign to other metros whom have designed more infrastructure, Dallas had a similar 1+ million people per decade Growth rate…

https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/2...rth/population

but they have been more successful at designing road infrastructure (and LRT) mainly because the region it inhabits is nowhere near as environmentally conflicted and there were nowhere near as many political NIMBY’s.

Freeways such as I-420, I-675/GA-400, Stone Mountain Freeway (ITP section), and even the Northern Arc (pre-cursor to the outer perimeter) were all apart of the plan for Atlanta’s freeway network from between the 60’s thru early 2000’s (for the outer perimeter specifically) but these roads were canceled, not because of growth but because they would have blighted the areas that they were going to travel through, and for the Northern Arc specifically, it was because locals did not want it to become a development corridor as investors literally bought up large parcels of land around the planned route before they even confirmed the proposal and it would have destroyed the Blueridge region in the plan that was initially intended.

MARTA has made countless attempts to spread OTP but whenever it comes up, it is shot down with hostility as the suburban areas do not want their enclaves to be easily and readily accessible by rail transit as they fear it will bring in the elements. Instead they have designed their own transit entities largely designing islands of transportation with bridges in between.

MARTA failed OTP, in Gwinnett at least, because those who voted against the 2020 ballot referendum were mainly opposed to heavy rail. The Gwinnett referendum only failed by around 1K votes, I think it failed largely due to lack of understanding & voters not wanting to wait decades for something you may not be around to see over NIMBYs trying to keep ‘that element’ out of the county. They’re already there. lol

MARTA is going to have offer LRT as an alternative, IMO. It’s less expensive, offers more route flexibility and the expansion timelines decrease considerably. Dallas (DART) took a similar approach in selling rail expansion to it’s suburban Collin County. I understand commuter rail offers far more capacity with fewer stops than LRT, but does a County like Gwinnett with no true population center need heavy rail?

Outside a possible 285 reliever, I just don’t see many large new highway projects moving forward here. I can relate with NIMBYs on this debate. Beyond more urban blight and environmental issues there are studies that demonstrate additional freeways actually create more traffic. I think merely building more highways can be a lazy approach to ‘improving’ infrastructure.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by First24

MARTA failed OTP, in Gwinnett at least, because those who voted against the 2020 ballot referendum were mainly opposed to heavy rail. The Gwinnett referendum only failed by around 1K votes, I think it failed largely due to lack of understanding & voters not wanting to wait decades for something you may not be around to see over NIMBYs trying to keep ‘that element’ out of the county. They’re already there. lol

MARTA is going to have offer LRT as an alternative, IMO. It’s less expensive, offers more route flexibility and the expansion timelines decrease considerably. Dallas (DART) took a similar approach in selling rail expansion to it’s suburban Collin County. I understand commuter rail offers far more capacity with fewer stops than LRT, but does a County like Gwinnett with no true population center need heavy rail?

Totally agree with this... and honestly, a lot of the existing routes might have been better implemented as light rail- thinking of the south and east lines. Light rail can have tunnels and underground stations and its own right of way. It's just less obtrusive, the stations are smaller. It is closer to the style of passenger rail that many of the historic downtowns were built around. I do think that MARTA subway is necessary in Midtown, Downtown and now Buckhead. Maybe they should take a two pronged approach- putting in more underground heavy rail lines in the urbanized city center and putting light rail everywhere else.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by First24

MARTA failed OTP, in Gwinnett at least, because those who voted against the 2020 ballot referendum were mainly opposed to heavy rail. The Gwinnett referendum only failed by around 1K votes, I think it failed largely due to lack of understanding & voters not wanting to wait decades for something you may not be around to see over NIMBYs trying to keep ‘that element’ out of the county. They’re already there. lol

MARTA is going to have offer LRT as an alternative, IMO. It’s less expensive, offers more route flexibility and the expansion timelines decrease considerably. Dallas (DART) took a similar approach in selling rail expansion to it’s suburban Collin County. I understand commuter rail offers far more capacity with fewer stops than LRT, but does a County like Gwinnett with no true population center need heavy rail?

Outside a possible 285 reliever, I just don’t see many large new highway projects moving forward here. I can relate with NIMBYs on this debate. Beyond more urban blight and environmental issues there are studies that demonstrate additional freeways actually create more traffic. I think merely building more highways can be a lazy approach to ‘improving’ infrastructure.

I can agree with this much. My main point was that, planning and the rate of growth was never really the issue. Atlanta metro did try to plan for the growth but many infrastructural plans did not come to past.

Originally Posted by bryantm3

Totally agree with this... and honestly, a lot of the existing routes might have been better implemented as light rail- thinking of the south and east lines. Light rail can have tunnels and underground stations and its own right of way. It's just less obtrusive, the stations are smaller. It is closer to the style of passenger rail that many of the historic downtowns were built around. I do think that MARTA subway is necessary in Midtown, Downtown and now Buckhead. Maybe they should take a two pronged approach- putting in more underground heavy rail lines in the urbanized city center and putting light rail everywhere else.

I personally think that the South line being HRT is absolutely vital mainly because it provides a seamless connection from Hartsfield to Downtown, Midtown, Buckhead and Sandy Springs / Perimeter and a single transfer to Decatur.

[cdw1084]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

As a Californian who almost moved to Atlanta a few years ago for a job opportunity, I think the trends will continue. What I think appealed to me about Atlanta was the following:

-Lower risk of national disasters (no earthquakes, out of the main tornado belt, inland enough to escape the worst of hurricane impacts, wet enough to not have major fire concerns)
-Plentiful water supply. I know there have been droughts in the past, but that's NOTHING compared to what we get here in the west
-Lack of extreme weather. Warmer than the upper Midwest, cooler than the Southwest or even the gulf coast. I know it does get pretty humid, but that season is shorter and it's aided by being on the Piedmont Plateau.
-Lots of room to expand radius of metro area. You're not constrained as you are here by ocean, mountains, etc. If it becomes too expensive in the middle of Atlanta, you can find something much more affordable in the exurbs
-Hub for the Southeast. This appeals to businesses, including the traditional F500 companies (Coca Cola, Delta, etc.) but also now more Tech companies
-Educated workforce. Lots of universities plus people relocating for jobs, lifestyle, cost of living
-Turning more progressive. I know that doesn't appeal to everyone but it certainly does to many of us considering relocation from the West or East Coast hubs

Not sure how quickly it'll get to the 5th most populated Metro Area, when you consider the CSA's of Washington-Baltimore and SF-Oakland-San Jose, both areas between 9-10 million and growing (although slower than Atlanta). But, I would expect Atlanta to continue moving up the ranks.

.

Exceptional post. However, are you saying that SF/San Jose and DC/Baltimore will combine into one metro? I can't see that based on the current commuting patterns and MSA definition. I think Atlanta will move past DC for 6th and sit there for a while.

[primaltech]

I've been pretty impressed with Seattle's light rail system, which is sometimes 60mph in a tunnel, and sometimes a bit slower and running on the surface or aerial. Although obviously heavy rail is superior, it's expensive and less flexible on construction.

I kinda wish MARTA would convert all its heavy rail to light rail. Then you'd have a lot more flexible expansion options, and Gwinnett could have a cheaper light rail to Sugarloaf along Satellite Blvd, etc. With still that single seat ride to the airport.

And the planned Beltline light rail could branch off the main East line and run directly into Five Points. Etc etc.

[Need4Camaro]

I personally would rather MARTA HRT to remain the way it is. Let new rail be LRT and focus on seamless transitions kind of like what you get in Transit Tunnel in Downtown Seattle.