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Thanks for reminding me about the weather. I assume NY (the areas we could afford) would be the same. The problem with MA, CT and RI (which I love, but know the least about CT) is the high COL and the taxes. CT and RI are pretty outrageous. MA although called "taxachusetts" is a bargain considering the QOL and that my husband's MA pension would not be taxed. However, housing is way out of reach for coastal MA as our budget is 450K. Same with CT and most of nice coastal RI but taxes do RI in.
I investigated VA metro DC area and have been told traffic is a nightmare, and as you said it's out anyway because prices are sky high (likely due to the good jobs and salaries of DC).
Due to all those variable, I am drawn to the mid-atlantic area - possibly MD @ Annapolis or other parts of VA.
It's hard to find the right mix of moderate climate, moderately progressive area, great healthcare and moderate COL all in one.
This is not the time to be buying. Keep your powder dry and buy on the dip.
This is not the time to be buying. Keep your powder dry and buy on the dip.
The potential issue with that advice is that housing prices are very likely to stay elevated for quite a while, even when appreciation begins to cool down. The issue is structural relative to inventory--the residential construction sector has taken a big hit during the pandemic, and new housing units are not nearly as prevalent as in the past.
To the OP, I think the Philly area and the Lehigh Valley may really provide the sweet spot you're looking for: moderate housing costs, moderate-to-liberal political leanings in a moderately-run state (the net result of a liberal governor and conservative-leaning legislature), access to great healthcare institutions, and honestly the most balanced four seasons in the Northeast (SEPA is definitely more temperate than anywhere in New England; I have extensive experience in both).
Consider areas like West Chester or Doylestown around Philadelphia, or around Bethlehem/Easton in the Lehigh Valley for the most precise balance you seek.
As for MD, I do have a strong soft spot for Annapolis, Ellicott City and Frederick. I think all hit the marks you're looking for (even though Annapolis is on the pricier side), but definitely not as exorbitant as New England.
Hi there. Can you explain further (or PM me)? I don't know much about MD except having been to Annapolis many years ago. It's near the bottom of the poll so it would appear you aren't the only one who feels this way. I know MD gets a bad rap for taxes, but I've run the tax calculators, and for a retiree in our situation, it's only slightly more expensive than VA. I think Baltimore drags it down a lot in the crime stats. But a well-run state is important to us, so maybe it's not?
Surprised to hear that NOVA is more red than the Triangle! We certainly don't want to live in a depressed area, and want an area that is growing but not exploding with growth, but since this is likely to be our last home we are not looking at it as an investment, although one never knows, right? Things happen and houses need to be sold so that is a valid consideration.
Gong off 2020, votes for Biden. Triangle is a deeper blue in a more purple state. NOVA is a slightly less shade of blue, but it holds more people relative to VA's size so VA tends to vote strong Blue now. Granted, the Triangle is more suburban over NOVA's more urban-ness.
The Triangle
-Durham County: 80.40% (Durham)
-Orange County: 74.80% (Chapel Hill, Hillsborough)
-Wake County: 62.35% (Raleigh, Cary, Apex)
NOVA
-Arlington City: 80.60%
-Fairfax County: 69.80%
-Prince William County: 62.30%
-Loudon County: 62.00%
I just see home appreciation fast approaching Raleigh, where homes are up 35% YOY. I think its a bteter vaue and there is more room for investment as it is a biotech and life science capital (7th largest cluster). I can't see this momentum in the RDU area stopping anytime soon.
NOVA is strong too. Tech hub, great access to DC. More established. More traditional 'urban'. But prices are already pretty high. I am not so sure how prices will continue to increase there.
But both are metropolitan areas for Smarty Pants', families and well-educated folk. Im 25 and the people I o know who had moved to NOVA, dripped down to the Triangle and like it better. (They work in Biology, mostly).
You should seriously consider the Raleigh, NC area. It is very blue (bluer than any Virginia metro, even NoVa) and with the way NC is growing, I wouldn't be surprised if NC soon overtakes VA as most liberal.
You should seriously consider the Raleigh, NC area. It is very blue (bluer than any Virginia metro, even NoVa) and with the way NC is growing, I wouldn't be surprised if NC soon overtakes VA as most liberal.
Yeah hopefully. Its going in that trajectory with more college educated folks and companies moving there.
Gong off 2020, votes for Biden. Triangle is a deeper blue in a more purple state. NOVA is a slightly less shade of blue, but it holds more people relative to VA's size so VA tends to vote strong Blue now. Granted, the Triangle is more suburban over NOVA's more urban-ness.
The Triangle
-Durham County: 80.40% (Durham)
-Orange County: 74.80% (Chapel Hill, Hillsborough)
-Wake County: 62.35% (Raleigh, Cary, Apex)
NOVA
-Arlington City: 80.60%
-Fairfax County: 69.80%
-Prince William County: 62.30%
-Loudon County: 62.00%
I just see home appreciation fast approaching Raleigh, where homes are up 35% YOY. I think its a bteter vaue and there is more room for investment as it is a biotech and life science capital (7th largest cluster). I can't see this momentum in the RDU area stopping anytime soon.
NOVA is strong too. Tech hub, great access to DC. More established. More traditional 'urban'. But prices are already pretty high. I am not so sure how prices will continue to increase there.
But both are metropolitan areas for Smarty Pants', families and well-educated folk. Im 25 and the people I o know who had moved to NOVA, dripped down to the Triangle and like it better. (They work in Biology, mostly).
I don't know what it is that doesn't click with NC with me, but it just doesn't. To me it reminds me of NH, which is the state I grew up in. I think it's partly because it's too far inland for me, partly because there's very little there that's walkable, partly that Raleigh doesn't feel like a city in the traditional sense to me - I'd much rather be near Boston or DC than Raleigh. Maybe it's that it's the copperhead bite capital of the US, lol. On paper it's great and highly recommended by a lot of people.
The potential issue with that advice is that housing prices are very likely to stay elevated for quite a while, even when appreciation begins to cool down. The issue is structural relative to inventory--the residential construction sector has taken a big hit during the pandemic, and new housing units are not nearly as prevalent as in the past.
To the OP, I think the Philly area and the Lehigh Valley may really provide the sweet spot you're looking for: moderate housing costs, moderate-to-liberal political leanings in a moderately-run state (the net result of a liberal governor and conservative-leaning legislature), access to great healthcare institutions, and honestly the most balanced four seasons in the Northeast (SEPA is definitely more temperate than anywhere in New England; I have extensive experience in both).
Consider areas like West Chester or Doylestown around Philadelphia, or around Bethlehem/Easton in the Lehigh Valley for the most precise balance you seek.
As for MD, I do have a strong soft spot for Annapolis, Ellicott City and Frederick. I think all hit the marks you're looking for (even though Annapolis is on the pricier side), but definitely not as exorbitant as New England.
Good luck!
Thanks for the suggestion. That area definitely deserves another look. I lived in Allentown for a short time. I didn't really care for it, but that experience was tainted by a bad break-up. I remember liking Doylestown and used to Bethlehem for Christmas and the big music festival they used to have. I found the people a bit stand-offish and kind of stuck in old thinking. When I first moved there I was a patient accounts manager for the largest HMO in NH. A woman not from there connected with me and told me 1) it would be very hard to get into management as an "outsider" and 2) near impossible as a woman as people there didn't think woman should work.
I haven't been to Annapolis for years but really liked it, and I've read about Frederick and it sounds interesting, but people have tried to talk me out of it saying it's an "odd" place with a strange mix, and call it things like "Fredtucky" or something like that. I definitely don't want to be in a backwoods or backward thinking area.
I don't know what it is that doesn't click with NC with me, but it just doesn't. To me it reminds me of NH, which is the state I grew up in. I think it's partly because it's too far inland for me, partly because there's very little there that's walkable, partly that Raleigh doesn't feel like a city in the traditional sense to me - I'd much rather be near Boston or DC than Raleigh. Maybe it's that it's the copperhead bite capital of the US, lol. On paper it's great and highly recommended by a lot of people.
No totally understandable. Raleigh is very suburban and really isnt on the same level as Boston or DC and lacks the ocean. I love the area.. more than I thought I would… but it really isnt for everyone.
Thanks for the suggestion. That area definitely deserves another look. I lived in Allentown for a short time. I didn't really care for it, but that experience was tainted by a bad break-up. I remember liking Doylestown and used to Bethlehem for Christmas and the big music festival they used to have. I found the people a bit stand-offish and kind of stuck in old thinking. When I first moved there I was a patient accounts manager for the largest HMO in NH. A woman not from there connected with me and told me 1) it would be very hard to get into management as an "outsider" and 2) near impossible as a woman as people there didn't think woman should work.
I haven't been to Annapolis for years but really liked it, and I've read about Frederick and it sounds interesting, but people have tried to talk me out of it saying it's an "odd" place with a strange mix, and call it things like "Fredtucky" or something like that. I definitely don't want to be in a backwoods or backward thinking area.
Ah, interesting background. Sorry to hear about your not-so-great Allentown experience (and odd comment your colleague made about female upward mobility). My thinking is that is not typical for the area, but I completely acknowledge that type of mentality unfortunately is not exactly extinct quite yet. Bethlehem and Easton tend to the more progressive Lehigh Valley hubs, anyway, what with their university influences. Also worth noting that area has seen a LOT of in-migration from metro NYC in recent years, so the region's character continues to change, and fairly quickly at that.
As for Frederick, I've heard some make similar comments myself, but I think the town itself checks all of your boxes (and the surrounding rural areas could potentially be avoided). The Baltimore and DC areas a very short drive away, too.
Last edited by Duderino; 08-08-2021 at 06:04 PM..
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