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Some people interpret "progressive" as being "liberal". I am not liberal. I am an independent. Maybe I'm a moderate, I don't know. I just know my QOL is very different in SC than it was in MA. I feel like a fish out of water.
What I meant by "progressive" is a state/state govt that is not stuck in the dark ages and is open to change that may benefit it's citizens. Some examples
I certainly understand what you're saying; it's really more about philosophy/worldview of the general population than politics for you.
But even you seem to be acknowledging that there's significant overlap between a "progressive" worldview and liberal political/legislative outcomes.
My only point is that it may be worthwhile to have more of an impact on voting for those outcomes in a state where you'd more "sway."
Some people interpret "progressive" as being "liberal". I am not liberal. I am an independent. Maybe I'm a moderate, I don't know. I just know my QOL is very different in SC than it was in MA. I feel like a fish out of water.
What I meant by "progressive" is a state/state govt that is not stuck in the dark ages and is open to change that may benefit it's citizens. Some examples -
An educated populace that believes in science. I consider MA where I came from progressive. Lots of educated people who for the most part followed protocol during the pandemic. High vaccination rate. Not so in SC. Over half of the population doesn't believe in science. They are conspiracy theorists and as a result our case numbers are skyrocketing.
I'll use "liberal" in the pre-class warfare meaning of educated and open to new ideas. Generally, that maps onto a university education though that's now so watered down that a college degree no longer means you're educated and capable of critical thought. Imperfect but it's the best metric we have.
The ranking by percent college educated is:
Massachusetts
Maryland
Connecticut
Vermont
Colorado
Virginia
New Jersey
New Hampshire
Minnesota
Washington
I'd focus on Maryland but stay away from metro DC where it's expensive. Towson is the "good" Baltimore inner suburb. 65% college educated. Just shy of $90k median household income. A white collar enclave of 55,000 people. I see totally reasonable sub-$400k houses there. 807 Elderbank Ct is a 2,000 sf 1957-build cape with an attached 1-car garage on 0.57 acre for $389,900. The taxes are $3,500. The kitchen and baths are a bit dated but functional. I'd check flood zones carefully, though. 802 Shaw Ct is sort of similar. 1950s build and a bit dated for $399k. There's light rail and bus into the city and to BWI. With MARC, you can connect to DC pretty easily for day trips without needing a car. Johns Hopkins is world class medical care if you need a specialist. The population is high enough and affluent enough that retail will be fine. Personally, I'd prefer to be on salt water but that's likely to meet your needs as you expressed them months ago looking in Rhode Island.
Some people interpret "progressive" as being "liberal". I am not liberal. I am an independent. Maybe I'm a moderate, I don't know. I just know my QOL is very different in SC than it was in MA. I feel like a fish out of water.
What I meant by "progressive" is a state/state govt that is not stuck in the dark ages and is open to change that may benefit it's citizens. Some examples -
An educated populace that believes in science. I consider MA where I came from progressive. Lots of educated people who for the most part followed protocol during the pandemic. High vaccination rate. Not so in SC. Over half of the population doesn't believe in science. They are conspiracy theorists and as a result our case numbers are skyrocketing. The Gov doesn't believe in science either, and puts $$ above people's lives. He has actually enacted and the state govt has passed legislation to block the mitigation measures that his own health dept recommends and the recommendations of the CDC. Vaccine rates are abysmal here.
There is a connection I believe, between education and progressive thinking - being open to change and new ideas. SC is 48th in education. New ideas are not welcome here. If one dares to bring up a new idea, they are told "if you don't like the way things are here, then go back home where you came from". Mind you this is not telling someone things were better back where you came from, it's simply presenting a new idea when a problem is presented.
Progressive is about having some environmental controls in place and not in-filling wetlands so that every square inch of land can be developed.
Progressive is considering light rail or some other public transit system that might alleviate growing traffic issues.
Progressive is allowing medical marijuana for ill patients that need pain relief.
I am not in favor of abortions, but I also don't believe in outlawing them, which is what the Govt here has done, purporting to be "pro-life" but with their mitigation stance on the virus they are anything but pro-life, letting people spread the virus unnecessarily and die.
There is a LOT of gun violence here. It seems every argument is solved with someone being shot. There isn't a night that goes by without the news recounting stories of shootings. Many times of innocent people who are killed. Now we have open carry without any training whatsoever. Here people shoot off their guns to kill the venomous snakes or alligators in their back yard (not legal). In MA if anyone heard a gunshot in someone's back year they would call the police. Not here... it's "normal". People don't care about laws. Or safety.
Progressive is paying people a living wage. COL is quite high in the Charleston metro. As high as where we were in Newburyport, MA save for lower RE costs. The wages are abysmal here. I worked in a highly skilled job requiring specialized training in which I have 22 years experience for a national company (financial services) and was paid $15/hr. I had to fight for that salary. They wanted to start me at $12/hr. $12-$14/hr is considered a "good" wage here for college educated, experienced people. The benefits were two weeks vacation and health insurance where the premium and deductible (7K) were over 40% of my salary. The minimum wage here is $7.25/hr.
Progressive is not being a "good 'ole boy" state.
I could go on, but that's the gist of it.
A lot of what I mention above goes on in the red states. Just look at the CDC vaccine map. I just am tired of living in a state where over half the people have "the world is flat" mentality, and "no one is telling me what to do, this is a FREE state", "no one is taking away MY civil liberties", community and helping fellow citizens be dam**ed.n. Here's my take on "freedom". A history professor once put it this way - "Your freedom to swing your arms ends when you hit me in the face". Exactly my stance. If your "freedom" hurts me, then steps to curb your "freedom" are reasonable and warranted.
I'm am not a "liberal" who believes in giving free college to illegals, or defunding the police, or not having strong border policies. Again, this is not about politics.
I want to live in a state where people realize that in a civilized society, laws and regulations are sometimes necessary. This state sometimes feels like the Wild West. I had a cousin who moved from NH to FL before we moved to SC. I asked her how she liked it. Her response was she liked the weather, but said "sometimes I feel like I am living on Mars." I had not idea what she meant. Now I do. The way of thinking here is SO different than where I grew up in NH and where I lived most of my life in MA.
Even if you live in a "progressive" area of a red state, the state govt. can enact legislation that is anything but progressive (outlawing mask mandates) and it WILL affect your quality of life. I'm living that reality now.
You asked which state in a certain area is the most progressive. This is 100% about politics.
You asked which state in a certain area is the most progressive. This is 100% about politics.
No totally. Yes, part of it is the laws that the state enacts like outlawing mask mandates during a pandemic, outlawing abortion, etc.
But 50% of it is the people in the state and their mindset. Are they educated? Do they want to think and discuss topics or do they have the attitude "this is the way we've always done it, it you don't like it go back home", and not believing in science but falling prey to conspiracy theories.
Part of the problem with this country is that we equate everything with "politics".
We're leaning toward MD or VA. I realize they are more expensive than the other places listed, but for us they seem to offer more of what we want.
I spoke with a friend of mine yesterday and he said something I had never heard before. He lives in MD and works in DC and has been there for 40+ years. He said in general people from the north tend to settle in MD and people from the south tend to settle in VA. Any truth to that?
You asked which state in a certain area is the most progressive. This is 100% about politics.
Both Maryland and Massachusetts have elected Republican governors. Right now, both states have Republican governors.
Former Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele served as Maryland's lieutenant governor and is contemplating a run to succeed Larry Hogan.
The thing is, these Republicans, while conservative, are center-right, not Trumpist.
Some of this, as the OP said, is about values more than politics.
We're leaning toward MD or VA. I realize they are more expensive than the other places listed, but for us they seem to offer more of what we want.
I spoke with a friend of mine yesterday and he said something I had never heard before. He lives in MD and works in DC and has been there for 40+ years. He said in general people from the north tend to settle in MD and people from the south tend to settle in VA. Any truth to that?
Generally speaking, yes. However those migratory patterns have changed over the years. For example, my Uncle settled in the DC area 55+ years ago after going to college in the deep South on a basketball scholarship. This was a kid who was born and raised in a NYC tenement. He raised his family in the Maryland suburbs (Rockville and Bethesda). A lot of people from the north, primarily NY/NJ, ended up settling in the Montgomery county suburbs in the decades following my Uncle.
That said, years later after his family was grown and mostly on their own he and his second wife built their "dream house" in Great Falls, VA. He's long since sold that house and has lived in McLean for well more than two decades.
So his family life started out on the MD side of the DC suburbs but ended up on the NoVa side. A large part of that is that NoVa, for a long time now, has felt more like northern suburbs than it used to generations ago when it truly felt southern.
So in general, yes, there's some truth to what your friend is saying. However not as much so anymore.
Some people interpret "progressive" as being "liberal". I am not liberal. I am an independent. Maybe I'm a moderate, I don't know. I just know my QOL is very different in SC than it was in MA. I feel like a fish out of water.
I think Duderino made a good case for considering a more "mixed" state culturally and politically. I'm going to run down your checklist to show you how Pennsylvania measures up.
Quote:
What I meant by "progressive" is a state/state govt that is not stuck in the dark ages and is open to change that may benefit it's citizens. Some examples -
An educated populace that believes in science. I consider MA where I came from progressive. Lots of educated people who for the most part followed protocol during the pandemic. High vaccination rate. Not so in SC. Over half of the population doesn't believe in science. They are conspiracy theorists and as a result our case numbers are skyrocketing. The Gov doesn't believe in science either, and puts $$ above people's lives. He has actually enacted and the state govt has passed legislation to block the mitigation measures that his own health dept recommends and the recommendations of the CDC. Vaccine rates are abysmal here.
Our center-left Democratic governor, Tom Wolf, was one of the governors who moved to put the state on lockdown as the case counts began to spike. The hospitals here, as a result, never overflowed as they did in New York State. He did get dinged for one boneheaded decision — sending elderly COVID patients back to nursing homes — but overall, this state handled the pandemic well. Our 55% fully-vaccinated rate (2/3 with at least one dose) is above the national average, and as of Friday, this was the only state in the country where case counts were on the decline. I don't expect that to continue yet, but that's an encouraging sign.
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There is a connection I believe, between education and progressive thinking - being open to change and new ideas. SC is 48th in education. New ideas are not welcome here. If one dares to bring up a new idea, they are told "if you don't like the way things are here, then go back home where you came from". Mind you this is not telling someone things were better back where you came from, it's simply presenting a new idea when a problem is presented.
Not quite one-third of all Pennsylvanians hold a bachelor's or higher degree, placing it right smack in the middle of the list of states by educational attainment — 25th. But the level of education of the populace varies: the Southeast — metropolitan Philadelphia — is the most highly educated region of the state.
But perhaps equally relevant is that this state has the fourth-highest percentage of residents born there in the country. 74 percent of Keystone Staters are natives. I'd consider this a sign of lack of openness, and even in very liberal Philadelphia, you often hear people dismissing some idea because "we've always done things this way." (Equally common are complaints from transplants (like me, a native Missourian who's lived here for 38 years) about how people here seem unwilling or uninterested in trying good ideals developed elsewhere.
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Progressive is about having some environmental controls in place and not in-filling wetlands so that every square inch of land can be developed.
Pennsylvania is the state that gave us noted conservationist Gifford Pinchot, who championed the preservation of natural lands and wild spaces; the state has a very well-developed park system and hundreds of thousands of acres of other preserved land. Several private organizations in the state, like Natural Lands, also have active programs of buying land for preservation as open space.
Quote:
Progressive is considering light rail or some other public transit system that might alleviate growing traffic issues.
Both of Pennsylvania's two largest cities have rail mass transit. Philadelphia is home to the country's third-oldest subway system, and Pittsburgh has a very well-developed bus rapid transit network in addition to its light metro lines. The state Transportation Department has shown an increasing commitment to public transit over the last few decades, and there are 37 mass transit agencies serving communities large and small statewide.
Quote:
Progressive is allowing medical marijuana for ill patients that need pain relief.
Check. Pennsylvania approved medical marijuana about five years ago. Lt. Gov. John Fetterman, a Harvard Kennedy School MGA holder from a depressed former steel town in the southwest, is a very vocal proponent of legalizing it for recreational use as well; in his first year as lieutenant governor, he dragged his superior by ear around the state, so to speak, with his "listening tour" that got Gov. Wolf to come around on the subject. The legislature, which is controlled by more conservative Republicans from the "T" (the parts of the state that lie outside the metropolitan orbits of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh), isn't there yet, though (Wolf and Fetterman are Democrats).
I'm going to skip past the rest to note that Pennsylvania is generally purplish on the whole. Conservatives who attempt laws of the type you mention in the part I snipped get pushback from urbanites, who generally prevail on such matters except where guns are concerned (hunting is a very popular activity in the state's more rural precincts). If you'd like to serve as a libertarian/center-right voice of sanity in a crazy conservative universe. Pennsylvania may well the the ideal state for you to play that role.
Generally speaking, yes. However those migratory patterns have changed over the years. For example, my Uncle settled in the DC area 55+ years ago after going to college in the deep South on a basketball scholarship. This was a kid who was born and raised in a NYC tenement. He raised his family in the Maryland suburbs (Rockville and Bethesda). A lot of people from the north, primarily NY/NJ, ended up settling in the Montgomery county suburbs in the decades following my Uncle.
That said, years later after his family was grown and mostly on their own he and his second wife built their "dream house" in Great Falls, VA. He's long since sold that house and has lived in McLean for well more than two decades.
So his family life started out on the MD side of the DC suburbs but ended up on the NoVa side. A large part of that is that NoVa, for a long time now, has felt more like northern suburbs than it used to generations ago when it truly felt southern.
So in general, yes, there's some truth to what your friend is saying. However not as much so anymore.
Yep. That's how it worked 50 years ago. My father's brother was Massachusetts/MIT and spent his career with the Atomic Energy Commission. He had a stint in Washington State at Hanford but was Bethesda and then Gaithersburg after coming back from the west coast. Yankees didn't live in Virginia. They lived in Maryland. That's certainly not how it works now. NoVA is people from all over the planet.
Of course, this is kind of moot. The OP is retired and is priced out of anything commutable to DC. I think Towson just north of Baltimore is as far south as the OP can get with a highly educated town that has housing that isn't beyond their budget.
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