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Stopped reading-bruh, really?!? That's like going to the worse hoods of every state lol.
New Jersey is the 1st or 2nd most wealthy state with some wonderful areas, its cities are not its strength. But there's a lot more to NJ than its urban cities. If you went to Hartford Bridgeport and New Haven you'd feel the same about CT, could say the same for MA. That's a very small ad distorted take on Jersey.
Newark isn't that bad either IMO. Not compared to a lot of other Northern cities I've seen. It's slightly worse than the average rundown city in the northeast but its improved a lot. Baltimore is far more rundown. Multitudes more
I know NJ is a very wealthy city but you gotta remember I'm speaking from a TOURIST perspective. I wasn't visiting New Jersey to see wealthy neighborhoods. Frankly I don't care to visit any city or state for their wealthy enclaves unless I'm shopping. Frankly the only reason we stayed in New Jersey because we were visiting NYC at the time and needed a big Airbnb to accommodate my family.
And hey, I'm naming entire cities not bad neighborhoods. It just so happen some of those cities I named happen to have a lot of blight throughout the city. And if their cities are not their strengths than what else do I have to go off on?
I mean I thought we were talking about cities here? Not national parks, malls, theme parks or anything like that.
And I'm saying compared to Philadelphia. IMO, Philadelphia was a LOT more interesting than anything I experienced NJ. And if I'm not mistaken I was in 4 of the most visited cities in NJ (Jersey City, Hoboken, Cape May, Atlantic City). But I just think the experience I had in Philly offered me more.
Great food, world class museums, vibrant nightlife, cool culture, ideal location to explore city (stayed in Rittenhouse Square). Maybe NJ has better places to live but as a visitor I enjoyed Philly more.
I've seen plenty of backwoods "hills have eyes" types of areas across the US to know how asinine that stereotype is. Pennsylvania has nothing on the South and much, if not most, of the Midwest in that regard. Also, much of New England.
Massachusetts isn't exactly the pristine, shining beacon of the world that it makes itself out to be, either. No place is.
Source: I've lived in both states.
It most absolutely does go toe to toe with some of the most backwoods areas of the South. Some of the most insular, unfriendly and downright unwelcoming small towns I have ever encountered are in Pennsylvania.
It most absolutely does go toe to toe with some of the most backwoods areas of the South. Some of the most insular, unfriendly and downright unwelcoming small towns I have ever encountered are in Pennsylvania.
Not in terms of relative poverty/quality-of-life.
Insularity and sometimes unwelcoming attitudes are the norm across rural America. I've seen it literally everywhere I've traveled, from coast to coast.
But the rural South has a particularly endemic issue with poverty and performs very low on a number of key "human development" metrics. It's a reputation based on a lot of factual data.
I know NJ is a very wealthy city but you gotta remember I'm speaking from a TOURIST perspective. I wasn't visiting New Jersey to see wealthy neighborhoods. Frankly I don't care to visit any city or state for their wealthy enclaves unless I'm shopping. Frankly the only reason we stayed in New Jersey because we were visiting NYC at the time and needed a big Airbnb to accommodate my family.
And hey, I'm naming entire cities not bad neighborhoods. It just so happen some of those cities I named happen to have a lot of blight throughout the city. And if their cities are not their strengths than what else do I have to go off on?
I mean I thought we were talking about cities here? Not national parks, malls, theme parks or anything like that.
And I'm saying compared to Philadelphia. IMO, Philadelphia was a LOT more interesting than anything I experienced NJ. And if I'm not mistaken I was in 4 of the most visited cities in NJ (Jersey City, Hoboken, Cape May, Atlantic City). But I just think the experience I had in Philly offered me more.
Great food, world class museums, vibrant nightlife, cool culture, ideal location to explore city (stayed in Rittenhouse Square). Maybe NJ has better places to live but as a visitor I enjoyed Philly more.
Suburbs.
You are not wrong Philly is (much) better as a visitor-its a major city that has dedicated time and energy to tourism, no city in NJ is a major city and they don't concern themselves with tourism that's kinda why I find it bizarre you were in NJ looking for touristy stuff in Newark its kind of a funny image in my head lol. Precisely because NYC and Philly are right there.
Like Connecticut, these wealthy states excel in suburbia and keep the necessary industry and poverty in a handful of cities. OFr most regular people they're out of sight out of mind. Theyre not really supposed to have anything for a tourist. You got to NJ and enjoy JC/Hoboken (only recently) and places like Princeton or Cherry Hill. Youre supposed to live in NJ (think Willingboro) and then go to Philly or NYC for work or tourism. NJ residents have a wide array of town events, shopping malls, entertainment complexes (a lot of those), parks etc that they entertain themselves with. Its a state that emphasizes suburbia.
I get what you're saying- I'm who goes to Elizabeth AND Orange who is not a rapper/trapper or family member lol. I chuckled. I've only gone to those places because my dad and wife are from NJ and I know people there, after MA and now MD that's the state I'm most familiar with. My dad grew up there in Trenton so Ive been heading there frequently since I was 6 months old.
There's blight throughout those cities but yea that's not representative of NJ at all which has some of the wealthiest and nicest burbs in the USA. And many that are just generally pleasant. Not to mention the best statewide public transit there and a wonderful coastline.
I like nj. Its my favorite state. Its small, compact and has everything you would want. And literally Two MAJOR cities border it. The pros outweigh the cons and i like it here every day. Couldnt say the same about FL MA NC NY etc
As a tourist, NJ has a jack of all, master of none type feel. Everything I might go there for is preferable somewhere else. It might not be bad to live in if your income or social life is tied to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts
Oh for sure.
One thing I cant stand about CT is how regressive its tax burden is. Mill rates of 10.8 in Greenwich and Darien but 60+ In its poorest cities. Middle class towns see mill rates of 30-40. Not fair at all. They literally tax EVERYTHING nad there is little result in its blighted cities. Thats my beef with ct
I do not understand how mil rates correspond to tax regressiveness? Due to prices of certain costs being what they are, if property values are not sufficiently high, then property tax percentages need to be higher to still meet the budget. Property taxes are usually to fund local operating costs, but roads, police, and other government expenses do not get cheaper because house prices are lower (might even be the opposite).
According to this report, CT is middle of the road in terms of tax regressiveness.
Although CT is regressive in the way it time shifted its expenses. The previous generations of taxpayers saddled the future decades with servicing debt from labor performed decades ago (via underfunded retiree benefits such as defined benefit pensions and retiree healthcare) that is multiple standard deviations above the mean:
I know NJ is a very wealthy city but you gotta remember I'm speaking from a TOURIST perspective. I wasn't visiting New Jersey to see wealthy neighborhoods. Frankly I don't care to visit any city or state for their wealthy enclaves unless I'm shopping. Frankly the only reason we stayed in New Jersey because we were visiting NYC at the time and needed a big Airbnb to accommodate my family.
And hey, I'm naming entire cities not bad neighborhoods. It just so happen some of those cities I named happen to have a lot of blight throughout the city. And if their cities are not their strengths than what else do I have to go off on?
I mean I thought we were talking about cities here? Not national parks, malls, theme parks or anything like that.
And I'm saying compared to Philadelphia. IMO, Philadelphia was a LOT more interesting than anything I experienced NJ. And if I'm not mistaken I was in 4 of the most visited cities in NJ (Jersey City, Hoboken, Cape May, Atlantic City). But I just think the experience I had in Philly offered me more.
Great food, world class museums, vibrant nightlife, cool culture, ideal location to explore city (stayed in Rittenhouse Square). Maybe NJ has better places to live but as a visitor I enjoyed Philly more.
Tbf New Jersey has a TON to do from a tourist perspective. Its not tight and compact like PHL. Because Phl is a major US city. New Jersey is little enclaves/towns/cities of things deemed attractive to explore.
Statue of Liberty/Liberty State Park/Ellis Island
Hoboken
Six Flags (tallest and fastest roller coasters)
Literally any beach from Long Branch to Cape May.
Delaware Water Gap
Historical Towns like Morristown, Princeton etc
The largest Mall in the USA with themeparks
Literally everywhere has great food in NJ. Like you cant NOT find good food…
Last edited by masssachoicetts; 08-31-2021 at 10:01 PM..
As a tourist, NJ has a jack of all, master of none type feel. Everything I might go there for is preferable somewhere else. It might not be bad to live in if your income or social life is tied to it.
I do not understand how mil rates correspond to tax regressiveness? Due to prices of certain costs being what they are, if property values are not sufficiently high, then property tax percentages need to be higher to still meet the budget. Property taxes are usually to fund local operating costs, but roads, police, and other government expenses do not get cheaper because house prices are lower (might even be the opposite).
According to this report, CT is middle of the road in terms of tax regressiveness.
Although CT is regressive in the way it time shifted its expenses. The previous generations of taxpayers saddled the future decades with servicing debt from labor performed decades ago (via underfunded retiree benefits such as defined benefit pensions and retiree healthcare) that is multiple standard deviations above the mean:
CT/IL/NJ really took their future taxpayers for a ride.
Maybe for YOU as a tourist.. but for everyone else, NJ has plenty to offer. As I said above, the literal entirety of the Jersey Shore, historical towns, Theme Parks which are truly spectacular, Hoboken, food scene, etc. hard to go wrong. I used to think the same.. then I actually visited New Jersey. Places like Atlantic City become out of mind. Its a very well visited state for that reason.
And yeah thats the literal definition of tax regressiveness. In MA its the complete polar opposite. Urban towns and counties (like suffolk/boston) pay almost half as much as Norfolk County or most of Middlesex County.
More people like Phoenix than literally anywhere on the internet. Doesn't matter if you are here or Facebook or Reddit or somewhere else all of them will insult Phoenix but the numbers of people moving here clearly state otherwise.
Maybe for YOU as a tourist.. but for everyone else, NJ has plenty to offer. As I said above, the literal entirety of the Jersey Shore, historical towns, Theme Parks which are truly spectacular, Hoboken, food scene, etc. hard to go wrong. I used to think the same.. then I actually visited New Jersey. Places like Atlantic City become out of mind. Its a very well visited state for that reason.
And yeah thats the literal definition of tax regressiveness. In MA its the complete polar opposite. Urban towns and counties (like suffolk/boston) pay almost half as much as Norfolk County or most of Middlesex County.
Every state has interesting things to do, and cool cities and towns to explore. But NJ doesn't have mountains, deserts, gorges, any true major cities of its own, any particularly iconic landmarks (Statue of Liberty is technically in Manhattan, although the waters around it are NJ), or any real national-level historical sites. I think it's totally fair to say Philly offers a better experience for the average traveler, particularly someone without a lot of time.
NJ isn't the worst state for travelers, of course. I mean, the Midwest exists. I had to look pretty hard to find interesting things to do in the downstate IL cities when I was planning out a trip with my SO.
Let's give Jersey credit though... Nobody appreciates Philadelphia more than South Jersey residents, albeit there is a difference between living in and periodically visiting a city. When you honestly think about it, there's no state that hates it's primary city more than PA.
Baltimore would like to have a word with you. You know it's bad when the Governor cares nothing about you.
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