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Richmond, at it's current ~230k population, is very close to it's peak of just under 250k pop. in 1970 (after annexation that is). So actually, it was never very big.
In fact, I do think both Raleigh and Norfolk are more urban than Richmond. Why? Because of the congestion, hype, endless miles of development and, sadly, clear-cut forests. In the case of Norfolk, it's industry and congestion which makes it seem more urban.
But anyway, that's just my POV.
Come on man... just stop. Under no circumstances is Raleigh more urban than Richmond. What other southern city is more urban? Lynchburg? Danville? Fayetteville?
Richmond, at it's current ~230k population, is very close to it's peak of just under 250k pop. in 1970 (after annexation that is). So actually, it was never very big.
In fact, I do think both Raleigh and Norfolk are more urban than Richmond. Why? Because of the congestion, hype, endless miles of development and, sadly, clear-cut forests. In the case of Norfolk, it's industry and congestion which makes it seem more urban.
But anyway, that's just my POV.
Norfolk itself isn't really congested. The region has pretty garbage infrastructure, from the interstates to the flooding to the public transportation and all around. There are cities and metros larger than Nfk and Hampton Roads that have less congestion...
As has already been mentioned, Nfk overwhelmingly is a military town. There is no dynamism to its industry to support a claim that it helps Nfk feel more urban than Richmond...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cityboi757
LOL because Richmond folks downplay Norfolk like it’s literally not even there.
You all literally call the Norfolk metro , “the beach” when referring to it, it is literally disrespect and ignorance.
There’s nothing I can’t do in Norfolk that I could do in Richmond and there’s nothing in Richmond that I can’t do in Norfolk.. besides sit by the murky river I suppose. Literally if I lived in Richmond I would be in DC/NOVA every weekend.. like seriously, what is the draw?
Richmond is sketch AF and the fact that you use the whole “Norfolk people hate Richmond” without adding anything substantive just says it all. Turn the other way all you want, NFK is here to stay.
Most people from here could care less about Richmond.. literally take 295 around the city even though it’s usually faster to go through the city.. it’s literally just a bypass on the way up north.. besides the few young people who move to Richmond for a few months to a year to rebel or get away before they return to 757 or end up elsewhere, I don’t think Richmond is relevant at all
1. I dont know why people have a hard time acknowledging this in damn near 2022, but the reason the area is referred to as "the beach", is because The Beach is the largest draw to the region. There are dozens of beaches in the area, so that's also why, and generally speaking relatively few people are going to the area to visit Norfolk proper...
When you're going thru airports and you see flights to or from ORF, it always says either "Virginia Beach" or "Norfolk/Virginia Beach" in parentheses. People aren't going to the area for Norfolk alone and that isn't a recent development...
Norfolk is the historical center of Tidewater but in modern times isn't a large enough city, nor one flowing with an abundance of activity and events, for the entire region to be labeled as "Norfolk"...
2. I think you know you're in a minority of people who think Nfk is equal to Rich. The overwhelming majority of people from 757 I've known, and I've known PLENTY, acknowledge Rich is being more of a draw and a more popping city...
"You" don't think Rich is relevant says more about you, as Rich has a bigger brand both in and out of Virginia, to Virginians and non-Virginians alike...
Only on this board have I seen people, most of whom aren't Virginians and are unfamiliar with one or both cities, relate Rich and Nfk as equal caliber cities...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquest1
You're right though, there's not much you can't do in one, you could otherwise do in the other. On that point, it's a matter of preference.
Yeah I'm gonna disagree with this, it really isn't all that close----Rich proper has many more things to do than Nfk proper...
Dining options and nightlife alone, Rich has much more variety in its culinary and nightlife scene. The number of venues may not outweigh Nfk's by a tremendous amount, but the diversity in said places is significant compared to what you get in Nfk...
Rich has a more robust Museum, education, and arts culture. Rich has the premier convention center in its region. Rich pretty handily outdoes Nfk in things to do...
I’ve seen Richmond confused for Richmond California countless times .. RVA is not a brand, it is not a more happening place, there are not more events, etc. please stop spreading misinformation.
If you would offer someone a weekend in NFK/VB or a weekend in RVA, I would imagine at least 6 or 7 out of every 10 people would pick NFK/VB..
There’s this weird cult like hype behind Richmond boosters that I just don’t see playing out in real life.
You all mention the best assets Richmond can offer and ignore the negatives while highlight Norfolk’s negatives and ignore its assets. Like the city of NFK doesn’t have the Virginia zoo or museums or cultural offerings or 757 doesn’t have the largest convention center or the Virginia aquarium or rooftop sushi bars overlooking the Atlantic or AAA baseball and D1 football or light rail with potential expansions with talks of arena and casino proposals and major concerts and festivals with celebrity activists and a busier airport with nearly half a million more people in the MSA and better natural scenery with miles of coast and shoreline
Even if I am in the minority on citydata, I take pride in staying true and being authentic and liking a city for what it truly is and not being jaded by whatever hype there may be around a city. If we could all plan a day/night in NFK and RVA for a non-biased neutral observer, I would be willing to bet money they would have a much better and more memorable experience in 757 than could ever be had in 804.
I’m still waiting to see any solid metric or any real world example of how RVA is far superior to NFK or something I can do in RVA that I can’t do in NFK.. until then, what even is your argument? That Richmond is the most important city in central Virginia? Well sheesh I could have told you that.
I’ve seen Richmond confused for Richmond California countless times .. RVA is not a brand, it is not a more happening place, there are not more events, etc. please stop spreading misinformation.
If you would offer someone a weekend in NFK/VB or a weekend in RVA, I would imagine at least 6 or 7 out of every 10 people would pick NFK/VB..
There’s this weird cult like hype behind Richmond boosters that I just don’t see playing out in real life.
You all mention the best assets Richmond can offer and ignore the negatives while highlight Norfolk’s negatives and ignore its assets. Like the city of NFK doesn’t have the Virginia zoo or museums or cultural offerings or 757 doesn’t have the largest convention center or the Virginia aquarium or rooftop sushi bars overlooking the Atlantic or AAA baseball and D1 football or light rail with potential expansions with talks of arena and casino proposals and major concerts and festivals with celebrity activists and a busier airport with nearly half a million more people in the MSA and better natural scenery with miles of coast and shoreline
Even if I am in the minority on citydata, I take pride in staying true and being authentic and liking a city for what it truly is and not being jaded by whatever hype there may be around a city. If we could all plan a day/night in NFK and RVA for a non-biased neutral observer, I would be willing to bet money they would have a much better and more memorable experience in 757 than could ever be had in 804.
I’m still waiting to see any solid metric or any real world example of how RVA is far superior to NFK or something I can do in RVA that I can’t do in NFK.. until then, what even is your argument? That Richmond is the most important city in central Virginia? Well sheesh I could have told you that.
Norfolk and Richmond are the two cities that are competing, Virginia Beach isn't Norfolk and Virginia Beach still doesn't make Norfolk better than Richmond, sorry bro. I also live in HR and have spent alot of time in Norfolk, it isn't better than Richmond. City to city Norfolk does nothing better than Richmond. Norfolk's museums aren't nearly as good or plentiful the urban neighborhoods aren't as good or plentiful, the restaurant's aren't as good or plentiful, Richmond has double the amount of rooftop venues as Norfolk. Norfolk's light rail isn't a bragging point to me, considering it does less ridership than Richmonds rapid bus. Richmond airport is like right on Norfolk's ass, and that's without a major tourist destination like VB. Norfolk's Casino deal looks to be bested by Richmond's possible casino. And Richmond universities are bigger and better than Norfolk's. And a real world metric is Richmond grew by like 11 or 12% recently, Norfolk has lost 2% in the same time.
I understand having pride for Norfolk but Richmond is still in VA it's just happens to be better than Norfolk. Richmond also has access to Chesapeake bay beaches within 45mins of the city, and VA Beach is only 90mins away.
I wish I could agree with you but I for one feel HR is reeling and the lack of unity between the cities has taken a major toll on all the cities in HR. If Norfolk was able to grow properly without the creation of Va Beach or Chesapeake it would be much different. But the same can be said for a Richmond still able to annex counties.....
Raleigh doesn't feel urban at all, it's just suburban sprawl with an ok downtown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevilFan
Come on man... just stop. Under no circumstances is Raleigh more urban than Richmond. What other southern city is more urban? Lynchburg? Danville? Fayetteville?
You all do know that "urban" has more than one meaning and the way it is commonly used here among city nerds is less mainstream and more technical/academic, right?
For most people, "urban" carries the meaning of urbanized. It's more about the pace of growth and development and not about the percentage of buildings with zero lot lines.
I know, and I know how silly you think my Roanoke comment is (expected you to comment on it because you’ve hated it in the past, but my experience on foot tells me that downtown Roanoke is more classically urban than downtown Raleigh, and on foot is how I personally judge places).
I was going to give rural and red an out (because for some reason I kinda like him/her, though we rarely agree on anything) by saying something like “maybe the word you’re looking for is cosmopolitan” (but decided to let the topic linger for a bit). A strong case can be made that metro Raleigh is more cosmopolitan than Richmond. The larger suburbs don’t feel more urban to me but they are on a level that we usually see around much larger and more urban city centers.
I live in Norfolk and the things that make Richmond better than Norfolk are:
Parks and trails
Walkable neighborhoods
Scenic views
Variety of stores/grocery/farmers markets
Seems like more people enjoy life and enjoy the things Richmond offers whenever I visit Richmond.
Museums
Restaurants
Cultural diversity
I much rather live in Richmond or a suburb around Richmond to enjoy everything Richmond offers.
The 757 is just a boring place compared to RVA
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