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People are just completely ignoring everything Norfolk has to offer in these posts. I understand if you prefer Richmond, but these comments just are not at all convincing. Having lived in Richmond I definitely can appreciate its urban character and cultural amenities but Downtown Richmond is just somewhat disappointing. Broad street going toward downtown is distressed at best. I know Richmond has been redeveloping downtown, but it just isn't as pleasant of a place compared to downtown Norfolk. Richmond is the capital of the state and the only principal city of its metro area so of course it is going to have more museums within its city limits. That doesn't mean Norfolk doesn't offer a balanced mix of those things too. Norfolk has a major art museum, zoo, and botanical gardens all within its city limits. Not to mention the city also has miles of beachfront. How can the 757 being a boring place compared to Richmond when you can literally do more things in the area. There are parks, trails, amusement parks, water parks, museums, and beaches. I really do not know what more people expect from Norfolk. The area offers access to more things than most places in the country.
People are just completely ignoring everything Norfolk has to offer in these posts. I understand if you prefer Richmond, but these comments just are not at all convincing. Having lived in Richmond I definitely can appreciate its urban character and cultural amenities but Downtown Richmond is just somewhat disappointing. Broad street going toward downtown is distressed at best. I know Richmond has been redeveloping downtown, but it just isn't as pleasant of a place compared to downtown Norfolk. Richmond is the capital of the state and the only principal city of its metro area so of course it is going to have more museums within its city limits. That doesn't mean Norfolk doesn't offer a balanced mix of those things too. Norfolk has a major art museum, zoo, and botanical gardens all within its city limits. Not to mention the city also has miles of beachfront. How can the 757 being a boring place compared to Richmond when you can literally do more things in the area. There are parks, trails, amusement parks, water parks, museums, and beaches. I really do not know what more people expect from Norfolk. The area offers access to more things than most places in the country.
I’m 26, came back to VA during the pandemic, spending a relatively equal amount of time between RVA and NFK. I have always been supportive of RVA and open-minded/optimistic and try to view the city in its most positive light, and I still will never understand the RVA superiority/bashing of NFK/ VB on this site. I personally think it’s more of a CityData/Reddit thing, when in all reality in perception there is not a consensus that Richmond metro has higher QoL or better culture, more livable, more walkable, more active, etc
It’s truly unfortunate that RVA posters on this site seem more apt to put down other cities, whether it be Norfolk or Raleigh or wherever in the attempt to express fondness for Richmond. I’ll be the first to say that if Richmond and Norfolk existed in isolation/ a vacuum that Richmond would be the more complete/ urban city that punches way above its weight in urban/ big city feel and has a much more expansive urban fabric/ more complete street grid and the hills and river both create a more appealing/unique natural setting. With that said, never once have I ever felt that Richmond fat outweighed Norfolk in any of the aforementioned categories, and in recent years, Norfolk’s core has been arguably more active than Richmonds downtown area and the surrounding cities/suburbs in 757 far outweigh 804 in population and entertainment/ cultural offerings. The only way this is debatable is if you have never truly experienced or expanded your understanding of Norfolk’s region and connection to other destinations, including proximity to outer banks and access to Philadelphia / NJ via route 13.
Even the most in-demand and up and coming Richmond neighborhoods have a comparable neighborhood in Norfolk, for instance the developing Railroad District has a Scott’s addition vibe but Richmond doesn’t have an answer for Norfolk’s most in-demand neighborhoods along East Beach or a compact downtown residential neighborhood like Freemason. as far as construction goes, Norfolk looks completely different now with the new high rises and mid rise development in Ft Norfolk/ EVMS.
As far as population growth, Richmond city is larger in area with more land and traditional suburban development with room for growth and is not divided into 7 cities and multiple counties competing for new construction.. the Richmond is growing and Norfolk is dying argument or laughable for anyone who has actually cared to explore or spend time in Norfolk or follow the growth in livability and the redevelopment over the past couple decades.
Lastly, Richmond is more of the type of city where people will sit around on citydata to defend its cities urbanity/ honor. Norfolk is much more transient/ military / tourist oriented, and thus from my experience, less people are inclined to spend time on forums discussing how urban their city is when in reality anyone who visits would know that both Richmond and Norfolk are far from world class and both could benefit from supporting one another rather than acting like either is clearly superior to another.
I live in VA and honestly... the VA Beach area just isn't as attractive and many think it's dumpy, many think the same for Richmond but it's easier to get to and its the capital so I think it gets more traffic. I personally prefer Richmond. Going to the VA Beach area feels like going back 20 years, it reminds me of St. Louis.
I will agree that the smaller downtown Norfolk looks cleaner and more inviting. Ghent looks cleaner than most of richmond’s urban neighborhoods. I love the development that’s going on in Norfolk’s Railroad/Park Place area as I’m a current resident. I love walking through Ghent. Norfolk definitely has the bones to be a great city. I just don’t think it has the people to be a great city. Also, the fact that each city in the 757 has its own downtown pretty much, takes away some of the luster of Norfolk’s downtown. Getting from city to city especially to the peninsula can be very hard at times due to traffic.
I would know, my job has me commuting all over the Hampton roads region everyday.
Richmond is the more “happening” place, vibrant, artistic, it’s just cooler. To me richmond is the region to party/enjoy life in your 20-40’s and Norfolk is the region to retire.
Richmond’s art museum alone blows away any if not all museums in the 757. RVA’s parks and trails are better, more abundant. Kings Dominion is lithe same distance from rva as ocean breeze is to Norfolk.
Norfolk is really missing an urban park where it’s residents can get fitness in or just for leisure, (a park that’s bigger than Lafayette and more used) It baffles me how much the Elizabeth trail and Lafayette park are underused. They’re not the best trail and park but, they’re the best Norfolk offers.
Being from the 757 I'll layout my 5 reasons why Norfolk isn't better than Richmond.
#1. Regional competition. Norfolk is influenced alot by the status quo of Hampton Roads, so alot of the urban development is slow and underwhelming. Most development in HR is still semi urban and that's also Norfolk's approach. 6 story apartments complex and single family subdivisions is the wave in HR right now and Norfolk is no exception. Richmond is obviously building right now to compete with larger cities, Norfolk still wants to 1 up VB smfh.
#2 Economic. Norfolk has a hard enough time even being the big fish in HR. It lost it's only fortune 500 company, and doesn't seem to have any drive to get another one. In fact Norfolk has done little to nothing to diversify it's economy, that a Hampton Roads issue as much as Norfolk. Richmond has multiple
#3 Public parks, public arts, culture, Bars/Breweries/Food. Maymont and James River Park in Richmond, are being overlooked if you think Norfolk has anything close to either of those areas. Norfolk is very new to the art scene and the art district is restricted to a small area. Richmond has more cultural significants than Norfolk, Norfolk is a newer city in a way. While Norfolk history is old it's masses of people came during WW1 and WW2, Richmond grew alot more in the 1800s, so yes Richmond has older neighborhoods rich in history and has a cultural element Norfolk lacks or destroyed long ago. As I've stated before Richmond is a good food city, and the bars and breweries are quite good and much more numerous than Norfolk. Richmond has or offers everything that Norfolk does as far as bars, breweries and restaurants go, and then some to be honest. Richmond has also been known for a large LGBT community , mural haven, Confederate history, Black/AA history, it's river/rapids so those things add to the culture of a city, Norfolk just doesn't have the layers of history and culture Richmond does.
#4 Retention and attraction of Younger people. 3 ties into this directly.Norfolk has a hard time retaining or gaining young people, weird considering how young most military people are. I think it has alot to do with the feel of the city. Richmond urban fabric, art, and large urban university all make it seem more inviting to younger people, and lively in general.
5# Urban fabric, Architecture, Neighborhoods, new development. I'll give Norfolk 1 neighborhood that can't be compared that's Oceanview. Norfolk is not building on the level Richmond is and it's neighborhoods aren't as architecturally pleasing.
Suburbs are a toss up to me, VB does have the beach and that's alone make it better than Henrico or Chesterfield. Chesapeake on the other hand isn't better than Henrico or Chesterfield. I also think Henrico will be building Green City if they develop that area too, I think Henrico would be better than Chesapeake. I also think Henrico and Chesterfield will build more like NoVa, having multiple new urban center's. I think some posters are too high on HR, this area may have the population now but I think Richmond Metro has the potentially and headwind to catch up by 2040. We got alot of work to do in HR/ Norfolk and working together as a region would help out alot.
Also Richmond probably has a large following and almost cult like presents because it's been a long time coming. I'm 33 and I remember Richmondcitywatch.com way from when I was 13!! That was a great site and the forum was awesome too. Richmond momentum has been building at least that long!! People knew then it was a hidden gem of a city. Also I would suggest visiting urbanplanet Richmond forum, just compare the development to Norfolk. Richmond has pages of neighborhood development projects. Norfolk has one new development thread that's pretty slow. It pains me considering I'm from HR, but I'm also all for anything VA. I'm just glad Richmond could be a great VA city so I'm all for the love
I think that there is also something important to point out to HR posters. There has been repeated mention of Richmond "boosters" and "homers" here. The posts in this thread have not be inundated by Richmond posters. Most posts have been from people actually from HR who appreciate what Richmond has to offer and others from outside of the area, sometimes outside of the state. This is city vs city and not the VA forum. Most Richmond posters have more experience with HR than just "the beach", I graduated for ODU and lived in Norfolk for 6 years. We have done decently in being unbiased but I feel like HR posters see a post against Norfolk and assume that it is from a Richmonder. We can also think Richmond is better but still respect Norfolk. It doesn't have to be an either or thing. I think that objectively Richmond is doing better at the moment and a lot of that is due to regional cooperation. Richmond deals with that as well but it doesn't have 6 other places to contend with. For example the Tide. I was there when it was built. It was built with VA beach access in mind. That is the entire reason it was built where it is. When VA beach shut that down it ended up being a train to nowhere that anyone wanted to be. You can catch it from the Mall to near NSU, though. Richmond doesn't have that issue because all of its biggest attractions are in the city. So even when Henrico didn't want to play ball we could still build the Pulse along a heavily used artery(our heaviest, broad st). This type of stuff affects the overall health of a place. Like with VA beach steadily building at Town Center. Henrico isn't building its own downtown to compete with Richmond. This stuff seems small at first but pulls steam away from the city in the long run. I wish it wasn't that way for Norfolk.
I think that there is also something important to point out to HR posters. There has been repeated mention of Richmond "boosters" and "homers" here. The posts in this thread have not be inundated by Richmond posters. Most posts have been from people actually from HR who appreciate what Richmond has to offer and others from outside of the area, sometimes outside of the state. This is city vs city and not the VA forum. Most Richmond posters have more experience with HR than just "the beach", I graduated for ODU and lived in Norfolk for 6 years. We have done decently in being unbiased but I feel like HR posters see a post against Norfolk and assume that it is from a Richmonder. We can also think Richmond is better but still respect Norfolk. It doesn't have to be an either or thing. I think that objectively Richmond is doing better at the moment and a lot of that is due to regional cooperation. Richmond deals with that as well but it doesn't have 6 other places to contend with. For example the Tide. I was there when it was built. It was built with VA beach access in mind. That is the entire reason it was built where it is. When VA beach shut that down it ended up being a train to nowhere that anyone wanted to be. You can catch it from the Mall to near NSU, though. Richmond doesn't have that issue because all of its biggest attractions are in the city. So even when Henrico didn't want to play ball we could still build the Pulse along a heavily used artery(our heaviest, broad st). This type of stuff affects the overall health of a place. Like with VA beach steadily building at Town Center. Henrico isn't building its own downtown to compete with Richmond. This stuff seems small at first but pulls steam away from the city in the long run. I wish it wasn't that way for Norfolk.
This post is an example of a very balanced perspective of a comparison between Richmond and Norfolk. It includes specific examples of the challenges faced by Norfolk and the qualities that may make Richmond a more preferable city. The Light rail situation in Norfolk is definitely very frustrating. It was completely approved to begin construction in Virginia Beach before a referendum was started to stop it without reconsideration. The light rail hits most of the urban parts of Norfolk, but it doesn't really connect to the largest population centers like Ghent or some of the major employment centers. Most people who work in Norfolk, work at the port or the base on the other side of town so the Tide is not able to gain ridership from two of the main employment places of the city. People do work downtown but the proportion is much less than a city like Richmond which has state government offices and many large companies located downtown. That being said Norfolk sill provides a pretty cool urban experience downtown albeit on a smaller scale than some larger cities. Although Virginia Beach definitely has a negative affect on the growth of Norfolk, it does provide a cool alternative for the area. Towne center may still be a somewhat suburban area, but it still is very walkable and allows people to experience a pseudo urban environment with access to restaurants, retail, and entertainment. Hopefully one day the Tide will be able to expand in to the city.
What region do you consider both Richmond and Norfolk (well, Hampton Roads) to be in? They both seemed to be removed from the Northeast Corridor (and there are cultural differences between Richmond and DC, but they're more similar than most people think), but they both seemed to be removed from the Piedmont Corridor further south along I-85 and I-40 in North Carolina/SC/GA. Are they Mid-Atlantic or South Atlantic? They don't seem as Southern as the NC cities, but they don't feel as Northern as DC and points north neither. They feel like cities between regions but not part of neither of them. I wanted the perspective of people who are from the region to get an idea.
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