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But not the part of Summit County (or Portage) that even if you argue Cleveland and Akron should be separate at the MSA level. Northen Summit and northwest Portage's population has boomed since 1970.
Cleveland has still lost slightly overall in the past 50 years but not to the extent just looking at what metro population numbers show.
I could look it up but I would wager that Akron has actually lost a higher percentage of its metro population than Cleveland since 1970.
I’m kinda surprised that Cleveland is beating out Pittsburgh because Pittsburgh has had the largest overall decline in population for its metro no matter how you slice it.
I guess Pittsburgh maintains a couple recognizable brands associated with the city like Hienz, while Key Bank or Progressive insurance isn’t really associated with Cleveland.
It’s really tough to say. Pittsburgh and Cleveland have overall lost population in their entire metro, so that feels like an obvious answer to me. But Detroit’s decay in its core and some of its suburbs has just been so stark compared to Pittsburgh and Cleveland, which have a lot more neighborhoods that still feel like neighborhoods. St. Louis is between Pittsburgh/Cleveland and Detroit in terms of decay. The Northside of the city is completely gutted with few exceptions and while parts of the South City are pretty poor and have a lot of crime, those areas are still functional as neighborhoods.
The one clear difference between Detroit and the other cities on this list is that Detroit still receives a lot of immigrants in a way these other cities don’t. Also Detroit’s metro continues to be strong and that combined with the massive revitalization the core has seen, I don’t think I can place it as the most declined, even if physically it is.
I’d place Cleveland as probably the most declined. The population of Pittsburgh actually slightly rose the past decade if you exclude incarcerated people, and I think that shows a better future.
I’m kinda surprised that Cleveland is beating out Pittsburgh because Pittsburgh has had the largest overall decline in population for its metro no matter how you slice it.
I guess Pittsburgh maintains a couple recognizable brands associated with the city like Hienz, while Key Bank or Progressive insurance isn’t really associated with Cleveland.
I would say that Progressive is recognizable. They advertise like crazy. I don't know if its just NFL but you can't go a commercial break during an NFL game and not see one of the Baker Mayfield commercials where his "home" is First Energy Stadium.
Progressive also sponsors NFL's Sunday Night Countdown and seems to be battling the car and beer companies as the no. 1 sponsor of what is by far America's most popular pro sports league.
Speaking of Stadiums, the Indians ... I mean Guardians... play at Progressive Field.
Maybe its not synonymous to Cleveland as Heinz is to Pittsburgh but the two companies probably have similar name recognition.
Anyway, im not really going to argue with any of these, they all have seen decline and are coming back up. The exception seems to be New Orleans. It continues to lag behind the others in job and GDP growth even if its population is more stable (haven't looked it up so not even sure if that's the case). Im basing it off economic factors more than population.
I’m kinda surprised that Cleveland is beating out Pittsburgh because Pittsburgh has had the largest overall decline in population for its metro no matter how you slice it.
I guess Pittsburgh maintains a couple recognizable brands associated with the city like Hienz, while Key Bank or Progressive insurance isn’t really associated with Cleveland.
Cleveland declined 6% from 2010-2020. Pittsburgh declined less than 1%. It’s safe to say Pittsburgh is way ahead of Cleveland in its turnaround. Forget about the brands you mentioned. Pittsburgh as a city has more overall industry than Cleveland right now. Wether or not it lost more manufacturing jobs, it also gained more non manufacturing jobs.
Cleveland declined 6% from 2010-2020. Pittsburgh declined less than 1%. It’s safe to say Pittsburgh is way ahead of Cleveland in its turnaround. Forget about the brands you mentioned. Pittsburgh as a city has more overall industry than Cleveland right now. Wether or not it lost more manufacturing jobs, it also gained more non manufacturing jobs.
1950-2010 was rougher on Pittsburgh than Cleveland though.
And since like Detroit Pittsburgh was synonymous with an industry I think it’s reputation was obsoleted moreso than Cleveland which was more of a generic industrial city
1950-2010 was rougher on Pittsburgh than Cleveland though.
And since like Detroit Pittsburgh was synonymous with an industry I think it’s reputation was obsoleted moreso than Cleveland which was more of a generic industrial city
I believe it, but like I said, it’s on the come up more than any other place here.
Fair enough... I would note that the concept of metropolitan areas, generally, is tricky and open to debate in some circles. For example, Cleveland planners and pols have insisted for decades that Summit county, home of Akron and 540,428 people per the 2020 census, should have long ago been included in Cleveland's metropolitan statistical area -- as defined by the US Govt -- but it is not. Including it would push metro Cleveland to well over 2.5M. Cleveland pols just this past year to reached out to Akron leaders to try and get them to buy into the idea that the larger, joint metro area would have more clout in Washington for all kind of added bennies... so really, the whole metropolitan area thing is as much political as anything else.
btw, per the 2020 census, both Cleveland's and Cuyahoga County's population losses slowed to almost a trickle esp compared to the heavier losses as of even a decade ago... In fact 2 of Cleveland's older, (so-called) inner-ring, transit-friendly suburbs -- Shaker Heights and Lakewood -- actually gained population for the first time in 50 years. Some predict Cleveland itself will see its population reverse and grow by the 2030 census.
I also always thought it was super weird, that Akron isn't already considered part of the greater Cleveland CSA. To me, the suburban growth of Akron and Cleveland blend together, to me. Same with Canton, as well.
I also always thought it was super weird, that Akron isn't already considered part of the greater Cleveland CSA. To me, the suburban growth of Akron and Cleveland blend together, to me. Same with Canton, as well.
Cleveland-Akron-Canton are in the same CSA.
Overall, the Cleveland-Akron-Canton area has lost something like 200,000 people since 1970 from 3.4 million to 3.2 million. On paper, that entire 200,000 loss is almost entirely credited to the Cleveland MSA. On the ground, the Cleveland MSA has actually been stable/stagnant and the losses were actually more toward Akron and Canton.
While Akron and Canton remain separate MSAs, they are definitely more reliant on Cleveland than they have ever been in the past (county borders skewing MSA numbers and the fact all three are within 60 miles of each other throws it off).
*Youngstown, the fourth Northeast Ohio metro (also within 60 miles or less) still is a separate entity. Though, Youngstown now is also more reliant on Cleveland than it ever had been (and more reliant on Cleveland/Northeast Ohio than Pittsburgh/W. Pa., even though historically, it aligns itself more with Pittsburgh/W. Pa.).
Cleveland declined 6% from 2010-2020. Pittsburgh declined less than 1%. It’s safe to say Pittsburgh is way ahead of Cleveland in its turnaround. Forget about the brands you mentioned. Pittsburgh as a city has more overall industry than Cleveland right now. Wether or not it lost more manufacturing jobs, it also gained more non manufacturing jobs.
I'm just curious. Have you ever been to Pittsburgh?
I know Pittsburgh gets a ton of love, for good reason too ... I've been a defender of Cleveland and Detroit (and Buffalo), and Pittsburgh is another city I love, even though I think it gets too much credit on here overall.
That's because, IMO, the love for Pittsburgh seems romanticized in some degree. Yes, Pittsburgh has a huge skyline and some inner neighborhoods that are killing it, due to a terrain that forces it to be dense. Yes, it has University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon that are national/world tier.
At the same time, it also has some of the most depressed areas within its urban core. Have you ever been to Rankin? Or Braddock? or Homestead (though the area on the river is nice and Homestad is way better than it used to be)? Or Wilkinsburg? Or McKeesport? There are dozens of others I can name.
The city of Pittsburgh is shielded from having to claim these areas. But they are there, and in the core. If Pittsburgh had to take its city limits and add its inner core boroughs over 75 square miles and count them with their city stats, guess what? It would look a lot like the city of Cleveland. On the metro level, it also looks a lot like Cleveland (just more white on each level).
I will say that Pittsburgh would be my choice as the one that is on the biggest upswing out of the choices. Despite that, I'm not going to act like it's some urban utopia in the Appalachian mountains like some want to believe.
With that said, my favorite parts of Pittsburgh are actually the gritty Mon Valley "burbs." They aren't cool and are as gritty as any neighborhoods in America but there is something about them that I love, even if adding them to Pittsburgh's "stats" take the city down a notch to the locals (and gives people on city data a more accurate view of what Pittsburgh really is).
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