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I don’t think that what you’re saying contradicts mhays25. Yes most workers will be returning to offices in some fashion, but what that fashion is remains to be seen. Many companies are trialing hybrid schedules and that could mean that some companies will need less space because not everyone is there every day. And “most” returning implies that some aren’t and their numbers could be significant even if not the norm.
I predict that office growth will be fairly flat and that there will be winners and losers with underutilized buildings becoming housing.
This is exactly what I think is happening. Cities can either look at this as a threat or opportunity. I think cities should look at this as an opportunity. That’s especially true for a city like DC with office space counts that compete with NYC submarkets but DC only has 700,000 people within 61.4 sq. miles. Personally, I have been waiting for a domino to fall that would force downtown DC to finally reach its potential and become a mixed use 24/7 vibrant downtown instead of an office park. DC’s downtown has the most upside in the entire country because of the size of the footprint.
2Easy, we have been on this website for over a decade and I have been predicting this day would come. I remember my first prediction was regarding the Federal government shrinking their presence and the residential opportunities that would present. Obviously, I never predicted a global pandemic would be the reason but whatever the reason is, we are finally here! The sheer size of downtown DC is massive so the thought of switching maybe half of the buildings to residential is very exciting!
Last edited by MDAllstar; 10-11-2021 at 05:27 PM..
Math. DC Diamond + Seven Corners/Bailey's + Silver Spring + the Hispanic cities in Maryland around College Park/Hyattsville + Huntington = 1.4 million in the same land area as Philadelphia.
And some of those towns are even denser than the DC Diamond itself since they have immigrant communities with high household sizes + 15-20 story condo towers throughout (see Bailey's Crossroads for example).
Math. DC Diamond + Seven Corners/Bailey's + Silver Spring + the Hispanic cities in Maryland around College Park/Hyattsville + Huntington = 1.4 million in the same land area as Philadelphia.
And some of those towns are even denser than the DC Diamond itself since they have immigrant communities with high household sizes + 15-20 story condo towers throughout (see Bailey's Crossroads for example).
One thing you have to remember is that’s the densest 134 sq miles vs Philly city which is just a 134 sq miles. Especially with how tiny those towns in MD are it’s very gerrymandered.
Like if you switched out Far NE Philly or Roxborough for NE DelCo you’d be talking 1.75M vs 1.4M
Math. DC Diamond + Seven Corners/Bailey's + Silver Spring + the Hispanic cities in Maryland around College Park/Hyattsville + Huntington = 1.4 million in the same land area as Philadelphia.
And some of those towns are even denser than the DC Diamond itself since they have immigrant communities with high household sizes + 15-20 story condo towers throughout (see Bailey's Crossroads for example).
But you presented those figures as being for "Washington." I don't think it that far-fetched that, even if you did list the 135-square-mile figure, someone might read that and assume you were talking about the municipality alone.
You should have presented them as being for "a 135-square-mile area in Washington and its suburbs analogous to the city of Philadelphia" or "an equivalent territory in Greater Washington."
Pardon my nitpicking here, but in this case, the terminology did make a difference.
I assume the territory in question is contiguous, for otherwise, it could be cherry-picking. Huntingdon (Va., I assume), for instance, is separated from the District by Alexandria. Wait — you said "DC Diamond" here, so Arlington and Alexandria are included. Edited to add: But I see btownboss4 points out the same thing in his response. Your territory should be 135 contiguous square miles for a proper comparison.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 10-11-2021 at 07:29 PM..
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Originally Posted by btownboss4
One thing you have to remember is that’s the densest 134 sq miles vs Philly city which is just a 134 sq miles. Especially with how tiny those towns in MD are it’s very gerrymandered.
Like if you switched out Far NE Philly or Roxborough for NE DelCo you’d be talking 1.75M vs 1.4M
It's not that gerrymandered really, as they all circle the circumference of DC's diamond shape. The DC Beltway is almost a perfect oval shape, and 2 million people inside of it.
It's not that gerrymandered really, as they all circle the circumference of DC's diamond shape. The DC Beltway is almost a perfect oval shape, and 2 million people inside of it.
Most cities aren’t a perfect circle though.
Like Boston goes about 1500 feet northwest from city hall but 8 miles Southwest. And NE Philly is 26 sq miles with 5500 ppsm, NE DelCo can add ~150,000 if you flip them out.
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Originally Posted by btownboss4
Most cities aren’t a perfect circle though.
Like Boston goes about 1500 feet northwest from city hall but 8 miles Southwest. And NE Philly is 26 sq miles with 5500 ppsm, NE DelCo can add ~150,000 if you flip them out.
Same with like Chestnut Hill.
Right but the point was being made that DC's original diamond is 1.1 million in 102 sq mi while Philadelphia is 1.6 million in 134 sq mi. Adding only immediate adjacent jurisdictions that are incredibly dense along the DC border you get to about 1.4 million people in the same 134 sq miles that would be total Philadelphia regardless of that city's shape. What I just described for DC wouldn't be an exact perfect circle either, but it's all one urban mass. DC is still a bit less, but with growth trends should make up the rest of that difference within the next 10-15 years.
Right but the point was being made that DC's original diamond is 1.1 million in 102 sq mi while Philadelphia is 1.6 million in 134 sq mi. Adding only immediate adjacent jurisdictions that are incredibly dense along the DC border you get to about 1.4 million people in the same 134 sq miles that would be total Philadelphia regardless of that city's shape. What I just described for DC wouldn't be an exact perfect circle either, but it's all one urban mass. DC is still a bit less, but with growth trends should make up the rest of that difference within the next 10-15 years.
Right. I think the point about population density has been over-discussed at this point. As you and the data indicate, Philadelphia has a notably more densely populated city proper/environs compared to DC. Not a "blowout" certainly, but it is a fact of the matter.
I'm much more inclined to go along with the hair-splitting about the comparative densities of the built environment over comparatively large areas in/around DC and Philly, which is an actual debate.
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Originally Posted by btownboss4
But it’s not apples to apples
That's what manitopiaa's point is. It's not apples to apples at all, and never will be unless DC annexes boundaries around it. The only way to make it as close as possible from apples to apples comparison, is to tally up chunks of the immediate bordering adjacent jurisdictions that are contiguous extensions of DC, but you cross the street and are in another jurisdiction.
If this street were in Philly you'd still be in the city. In DC you've crossed into MD by walking across the street. This is more analogous to LA/LA County to be honest, with regards to the contiguity with lack of drop off.
So you go around the borderline just like this area here, and tally up in as close to an even contiguous land mass as you can, to gather up the 32 sq mi difference of Philadelphia proper and the 102 sq mi District diamond. Simply looking at an overhead map of this it's pretty clear what is contiguous.
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