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If you stood in the city center of any city and walked around it would appear the city's that would be largest would be, have you no knowledge about America:
There has been a misunderstanding in regards to me saying rowhouses aren’t urban. They are most certainly urban. The most urban form of housing behind buildings that form a streetwall. The point I have been making was regarding the urban core of DC which is mainly comprised of buildings which form streetwalls and which happen to be expanding outward every year at a substantially faster rate than Boston, Philadelphia, or San Francisco and how that impacts the conversation of which city appears larger which was the subject of the thread. I don’t have the answer, but the debate is enjoyable.
I think the debate turned when people started asking about the population density of those neighborhoods with streetwalls and compared them to rowhouse neighborhoods. I just found it confusing that someone would think rowhouse neighborhoods were built MORE urban than the CBD.
We are not saying row houses are more urban than midrises but the fact there is so much more of it in Philly than DC is the difference.
It’s outside of Center City and Downtown DC when Philly where it distances itself.
If you took a random bus route a random distance in DC or Philly chances are what’s right outside the door is more developed.
That’s also how I feel about DC vs Boston or DC vs San Francisco
I can agree with this. Philadelphia has a higher population density by every metric for the most part. It’s a residential city, not an employment center when compared to DC. This is a conversation about land use. If the jobs in the Philadelphia MSA were concentrated in the urban core of Philadelphia like they are in DC, the population density would freefall though. Would that make it less urban? I guess that’s my point.
Actually, there's a great deal of handwringing going on here about how Center City Philadelphia and the City of Philadelphia as a whole have underperformed as employment centers relative to their East Coast peers.
The relevant stat as of three years ago: All of the other large East Coast cities (plus the big ones elsewhere, like Chicago, LA and SF) had recovered all the jobs they had lost since 1970, and most of them had surpassed their 1970 levels of employment. Philadelphia had yet to do so, and the job growth curve had only recently started to tick upward again.
This IMO is a legit concern, especially given the population growth that has occurred in the city since the late 1990s. If people are moving into the city (or sticking around after college) but there's no place for them to work, then eventually, they will leave. Now, if some of these people form their own small businesses or startup companies, that's good for the city and for those job stats, and we should encourage such behavior as much as possible (something many here believe the city does not do well). But until the upward angle of that curve increases, this will remain a worry, and, of course, COVID has knocked everything into a cocked hat.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law
Hello,
Excluding New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Toronto, which city in the United States visually appears like the largest city in the United States and Canada?
Visually referring to the optics associated with how large something or somewhere is. The built up nature of the place, the ever expanding horizon, large scale infrastructure, I don't know what else to include.
State your choice, make a case.
Since we are literally talking about what is visually largest, and not density numbers, I judge by two things...
Visually largest from the air:
SF
Philly/DC
Boston
Miami
Seattle
Ground level:
Philadelphia
San Francisco
Boston/DC
Miami
I have never been to Montreal.
Last edited by the resident09; 10-11-2021 at 09:00 AM..
Actually, there's a great deal of handwringing going on here about how Center City Philadelphia and the City of Philadelphia as a whole have underperformed as employment centers relative to their East Coast peers.
The relevant stat as of three years ago: All of the other large East Coast cities (plus the big ones elsewhere, like Chicago, LA and SF) had recovered all the jobs they had lost since 1970, and most of them had surpassed their 1970 levels of employment. Philadelphia had yet to do so, and the job growth curve had only recently started to tick upward again.
This IMO is a legit concern, especially given the population growth that has occurred in the city since the late 1990s. If people are moving into the city (or sticking around after college) but there's no place for them to work, then eventually, they will leave. Now, if some of these people form their own small businesses or startup companies, that's good for the city and for those job stats, and we should encourage such behavior as much as possible (something many here believe the city does not do well). But until the upward angle of that curve increases, this will remain a worry, and, of course, COVID has knocked everything into a cocked hat.
Would you be willing to trade the residential density in Center City for DC’s office space and jobs? What would an additional 100 million sq. feet of office space in Center City do to the population density there? Could Center City even accommodate an additional 100 million sq feet of office space?
We are not saying row houses are more urban than midrises but the fact there is so much more of it in Philly than DC is the difference.
It’s outside of Center City and Downtown DC when Philly where it distances itself.
If you took a random bus route a random distance in DC or Philly chances are what’s right outside the door is more developed.
That’s also how I feel about DC vs Boston or DC vs San Francisco
The footprint of those highrise/midrise buildings in DC is the size of Center City and south Philly combined though. How does that not impact how large the cities feel?
The footprint of those highrise/midrise buildings in DC is the size of Center City and south Philly combined though. How does that not impact how large the cities feel?
No it isn’t that’s a gross exaggeration
Plus West Philly, Kensington, North Philly are just as built up as South Philly
Not to mention the avenues of DC are in some cases wider than the far sidewalk across a street, through a block of buildings and to the far sidewalk of the next street in South Philly.
My opinion is that Montreal would be comparable to Philly from the air but below it on the ground. It has expansive rowhouse neighborhoods too but it’s downtown is less impressive, the streets tend to be wider, and the townhouses tend to have larger setbacks from the street.
Plus West Philly, Kensington, North Philly are just as built up as South Philly
How large do you think Navy Yard/Buzzard Point to Dupont Circle/Logan Circle running north to south and Foggy Bottom to Union Market running east to west is? Do you have a measurement for that area? I’m sure because of COVID, most people aren’t aware of what DC currently looks like, but there isn’t much of a break from Gallery Place to Union Market now. The core is even expanding north into Eckington now.
With the Frederick Douglass Memorial bridge now complete and the coming circles on both sides of the bridge under construction, the urban core is going to extend east of the river soon. The bridge district is scheduled to break ground in 2022.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 10-11-2021 at 09:40 AM..
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