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I am really surprised that Minneapolis is so low. Unless you're really into a large, dense urban core Minneapolis is clearly a safer, classier, more prosperous place than either Chicago or Philly, so it does make sense that a real estate price point this low would fuel the growth the Twin Cities is experiencing relative to Chicago/Philly.
Chicago and Philadelphia both have large dense urban core areas that are fairly safe, classy and prosperous as they are somewhat physically large cities. The thing is, those large city boundaries also include places that are really rough. Chicago's at 234 square miles, Philly's at 134, and Minneapolis at 54. People routinely live in areas for their day to day that doesn't go anywhere near to covering all parts of a city within a day or even a lifetime, so there is pretty high variability. What I think is striking about Chicago and Philadelphia isn't just the median price which includes areas good and bad, but the price for housing in places that are good and with what they offer in comparison to other large urban cities.
One thing Minneapolis has done a good job of, but also partly having to do with how much was leveled for parking lots in and near downtown in decades past, is allowing for fairly good density and build-out in much of the city to accommodate the growing population. That's something that a lot of US cities have done in comparison a very poor job of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losfrisco
San Bernardino is one such place-
-70 degree weather in February
-30 miles to multiple ski resorts
-75 miles to Santa Monica beaches
-Metrolink train service to Downtown Los Angeles seven days a week, 15+ departures daily
Based off of just that, its not hard for me to understand why San Bernardino home prices exceed Nashville or Raleigh, it wouldn't occur to me to consider public policy as a factor.
These are nice bonuses, but the people moving out to San Bernardino oftentimes aren't those with the leisure and time resources to enjoy much of that. It's a lot more about economic pressures pushing people further out and there are massive public policy issues that have lead to that and are in some degrees there are attempts being made to address them. As stated earlier, it's a pretty rough combination of actual demand, property tax valuations, parking mandates, weak mass transit funding, zoning, and seismic precautions together leading to the housing price crunch in terms of state (and municipal) public policy issues. One main reason why Koreatown and Hollywood among other parts that aren't SFH zoned (itself an issue) are getting such massive construction projects now is partially because the prices have gone so sky-high that some of the otherwise large costs associated like parking minimums are now worth it to put in the costs of these giant parking podium structures with housing on top since housing prices are high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub
True.
Here's the thing: years ago, California wasn't as disproportionately expensive to the rest of the country as it is now.
Years ago, California was a nicer, safer, cleaner, more desirable place with good public schools and a reasonable government. Not utopia, but a model state that people from differing political stances could agree was a pretty nice place.
Years ago, it wasn't unthinkable for a middle class family to contemplate moving to California, even to the coastal cities. No, they probably couldn't get a cottage overlooking the ocean, but a basic house a little bit inland wasn't out of the realm of possibility.
Prices haven't shot up at such a higher rate because the mountains became taller or the beaches sandier.
Bad policy created the pariah that California has become today.
I can't even fathom how to afford living out there in any place that would be halfway as good as I have it in the midwest.
Trailer park, van life, tent on a sidewalk? Yeah, that'd be a lot of us if we tried to move out there these days. Actually, the lot rent in trailer parks in Cal can be higher than what we pay for a 1400 sqft condo with a two car garage here. Seriously though...
I could sacrifice safety and schools to still pay double or triple what I'd pay here in the middle, but mountains, oceans, and boring weather aren't that special.
San Bernadino? Ain't no way at those prices.
As for that list, I see a few cities toward the bottom that actually seem the most appealing anyway.
California's been expensive for a while, so I think saying decades ago better communicates what's happened than saying years ago.
I think the reasonable government and political stance bit is interesting, but I don't think that's where the public policy issues really lie because that doesn't quite intersect well with any particular viewpoint in politics. NIMBYs, zoning, parking mandates, property tax values, transportation planning towards things that have far less space efficiency, etc. and people in support of specific measures that drive up the cost of housing seem to have supporters in a very wide coalition of political viewpoints.
It's also very different sets of parameters for different people. For some industries, California, or at least parts of California, are the top echelons of their industry and the rewards for succeeding in such are massive and can be very, very well worth it. That does play large direct roles in housing costs as there are people for which housing prices in California aren't really that much of their budget (or even better, are part of their investment portfolio and how they make money). However, I think it's a lot more than just that as previously mentioned public policy factors and general demand all play into this to large degrees.
Here's the thing: years ago, California wasn't as disproportionately expensive to the rest of the country as it is now.
How far do we need to go back? Here’s a news report from 1978 where San Diego is the 4th most expensive housing market in the country? It dropped a spot in 42 years to #5
Central California can be pretty butt ugly. I don't think places like Bakersfield, Modesto, Fresno, and Merced are beating out many places in scenery and natural environment.
Not to mention that you can most definitely get to the mountains or ocean beaches (with actual warm/swimable water) from Raleigh within 2 hours as well.
Based on the data presented, nearby San Antonio has less than half the typical house price of Austin. Obviously their economy is very different, but San Antonio is a similar sized city with plenty of jobs and amenities - and a lot less hype. It is probably already drawing many people who have difficulty affording a house in Austin and want to stay in central Texas.
San Antonio really isn't nearby unless you consider Philadelphia at 90 miles to be nearby NYC. its 75 to 80 miles away. In terms of scenery, Austin is a more attractive town and the job of the Alamo city don't pay like those of the Capital City nor require the same skill set. People are going to just move to SA due to the higher cost of Austin. SA is a town built on the military and tourism, not Tech and UT-Austin and State Government.
If this by metro area Atlanta, Nashville, Raleigh and Phoenix have both become very overpriced but if it's city limits which I think it is, the core of all those cities is somewhat booming right now for the most part so that explains why they are higher than some cities you wouldn't expect.
Beyond home prices, one also has to consider rent. I know Atlanta has seen a bigger spike than most, not only due to job growth but also having a relatively low number of new construction starts for its metro size.
Beyond home prices, one also has to consider rent. I know Atlanta has seen a bigger spike than most, not only due to job growth but also having a relatively low number of new construction starts for its metro size.
Atlanta was lower than most cities in it's size range and even below around 2015-2016 because it got hit harder by the recession. In the last 2-3 years everything has skyrocketed and its more than made up for it. Also a big factor is Atlanta is starting to become somewhat of a hub of tech relocations. Prior to 2016 none of the silicon valley tech companies really had any significant presence in Atlanta.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganderTexan
If this by metro area Atlanta, Nashville, Raleigh and Phoenix have both become very overpriced but if it's city limits which I think it is, the core of all those cities is somewhat booming right now for the most part so that explains why they are higher than some cities you wouldn't expect.
Here's an income stat from the 2019 Census 1-year estimates.
Washington and Atlanta and have always done really, really well in this specific income measure-there's a ton of wealth within those 2 city limits.
City, State, Typical Home Price Feb 2022(Average Married Couple Income, Both Spouses Work)
San Francisco, CA $1,545,059($276,903)
Fremont, CA $1,476,366($227,675)
San Jose, CA $1,397,574($235,529)
Irvine, CA $1,159,143($227,032)
Oakland, CA $961,248($209,576)
Los Angeles, CA $934,305($180,890)
San Diego, CA $918,467($171,283)
Seattle, WA $915,340($237,277)
Anaheim, CA $846,355($132,686)
Honolulu, HI $824,605($140,306)
Long Beach, CA $786,182($146,945)
Scottsdale, AZ $784,305($223,648)
Chula Vista, CA $777,383($140,274)
Santa Ana, CA $763,925($101,561)
Santa Clarita, CA $750,542($164,399)
New York, NY $741,622($188,682)
Boston, MA $710,654($196,965)
Washington, DC $692,376($252,313)
Austin, TX $636,839($172,903)
Denver, CO $599,742($167,811)
Riverside, CA $594,530($133,943)
Jersey City, NJ $576,986($190,652)
Portland, OR $564,334($165,591)
Reno, NV $549,527($129,102)
Gilbert, AZ $547,777($142,234)
Boise, ID $523,760($129,830)
Chandler, AZ $498,677($159,936)
Aurora, CO $489,489($114,284)
Plano, TX $487,587($186,327)
Sacramento, CA $484,269($145,391)
Henderson, NV $469,875($143,300)
Miami, FL $469,562($122,403)
Colorado Springs, CO $461,668($122,239)
Stockton, CA $434,490($138,634)
Raleigh, NC $412,599($154,375)
Mesa, AZ $405,723($121,230)
Nashville, TN $404,945($152,366)
Las Vegas, NV $399,108($128,714)
Phoenix, AZ $396,063($134,624)
Spokane, WA $387,564($104,749)
Newark, NJ $384,391($72,311)
North Las Vegas, NV $380,286($96,125)
Glendale, AZ $380,007($116,268)
Durham, NC $370,805($141,337)
Atlanta, GA $366,797($233,358)
Tampa, FL $365,650($163,845)
Charlotte, NC $358,605($157,199)
Anchorage, AK $356,401($154,829)
Virginia Beach, VA $355,526($131,627)
Fresno, CA $354,622($117,374)
Bakersfield, CA $353,987($135,880)
Irving, TX $351,550($134,129)
Madison, WI $349,786($149,438)
Chesapeake, VA $348,322($129,796)
Orlando, FL $338,272($118,409)
Minneapolis, MN $324,985($158,080)
St Petersburg, FL $315,765($141,970)
Richmond, VA $310,042($176,119)
Chicago, IL $306,098($178,793)
Arlington, TX $300,723($119,790)
Tucson, AZ $300,294($104,548)
Dallas, TX $294,603($169,630)
Fort Worth, TX $292,552($126,679)
Albuquerque, NM $286,465($124,258)
St Paul, MN $279,635($104,030)
San Antonio, TX $276,049($115,478)
Garland, TX $275,992($113,215)
Jacksonville, FL $273,730
New Orleans, LA $271,080($158,034)
Lexington, KY $260,968($136,972)
Norfolk, VA $260,906($112,268)
Omaha, NE $251,594($132,258)
Lincoln, NE $250,845($117,199)
Houston, TX $241,582($159,938)
Philadelphia, PA $227,938($135,594)
Columbus, OH $223,836($121,579)
Louisville, KY $219,949($126,453)
Greensboro, NC $218,809($123,503)
Cincinnati, OH $217,891($145,812)
Baton Rouge, LA $215,200($136,289)
Kansas City, MO $214,263($125,368)
Winston-Salem, NC $209,917($122,913)
Indianapolis, IN $208,102($116,989)
Corpus Christi, TX $204,144($118,042)
Pittsburgh, PA $203,384($163,411)
Baltimore, MD $196,478($156,140)
Buffalo, NY $195,614($110,130)
Fort Wayne, IN $190,825($104,649)
Lubbock, TX $190,742($113,170)
Laredo, TX $184,086($103,848)
Oklahoma City, OK $183,125($129,394)
El Paso, TX $182,377($94,370)
Wichita, KS $170,666($113,272)
Tulsa, OK $169,554($135,958)
Milwaukee, WI $167,070($108,476)
St Louis, MO $166,529($132,295)
Memphis, TN $139,694($130,886)
Toledo, OH $102,102($95,641)
Cleveland, OH $99,107($101,214)
Detroit, MI $64,368(93,839)
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