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Fairly certain you are not including Williamsburg as part of DT, or are you?….looking forward to this thread as I’m spending a week at The William Vale in June and looking to explore various parts of Brooklyn—which can be accessed by ferry not too far from where I’m staying.
Looking forward to a change of pace from Manhattan.
Had you asked about Battery Park (Manhattan) I would have said Brickell, but will see what others have to say on this thread.
No--Williamsburg is far from downtown Brooklyn, in terms of the city of New York. It is about a 12-14 minute subway ride to Williamsburg, from downtown Brooklyn, on the G train.
Downtown Brooklyn is pretty compact overall. Remember, Brooklyn has well over 40+ neighborhoods in the borough, and has as many people almost as the city of Chicago, at 2.7 million, and growing.
Williamsburg has just exploded with population growth and new development/redevelopment over the past 20 years. Going from a somewhat sketchy, lower density neighborhood with many warehouses, lofts and so-so multifamily buildings and architecturally "meh" townhouses, to one of the most expensive neighborhoods to live in, in the city.
The neighborhoood is now far too expensive for the artists and creatives and urban professionals who helped make the neighborhood a brand, and a hot-spot destination from around the globe.
I love Williamsburg--I've watched it grow from hotspot drug and prostitute haven hangout to one of the hottest neighborhoods in the city. It has some really fun bars and hip restaurants--and is constantly growing.
Williamsburg 2022 is now essentially the "meapacking district of Brooklyn" or the "Soho of Brooklyn." Dumbo is very similar, but much smaller and much more compact of a neighborhood, than Williamsburg.
Looking at some street-level and skyline pics, my immediate first thought is it reminds me of downtown Oakland.
It's been about 9 years since I was in Oakland, and at the time, it was not a super desirable spot, in many areas, in which to live.
I think Oakland is more closely aligned with a city like St Louis or Cleveland, or an extreme example might be Newark, in my experience.
Downtown Brooklyn is growing very robustly, and some would even say booming, with development. Although it does have a few areas that definitely are not completely gentrified yet, or still have a rough around the edges vibe, the vast majority of downtown Brooklyn is desirable and livable with tons of subway lines, vibrancy, shopping, restaurants, and a strong quality of life.
Oakland is on a different level than Brooklyn, and has a lot of work to do for its downtown to grow like Brooklyn's.
Brooklyn is like Philadelphia or JC. Grimey, gritty overall. Nice brownstones/rowhomes, adjacent to sketchy neighborhoods, some nice skyscraper development, a central artery downtown strip, etc. Some posh neighbrohoods here and there, coastline yuppy areas, some areas that look like a warzone etc.
I find Brooklyn to be less exciting than Philadelphia though. I still like Philly better, but comparing both of them.. they are pretty similar in a lot of ways.
Last edited by masssachoicetts; 02-28-2022 at 09:27 AM..
It's been about 9 years since I was in Oakland, and at the time, it was not a super desirable spot, in many areas, in which to live.
I think Oakland is more closely aligned with a city like St Louis or Cleveland, or an extreme example might be Newark, in my experience.
Downtown Brooklyn is growing very robustly, and some would even say booming, with development. Although it does have a few areas that definitely are not completely gentrified yet, or still have a rough around the edges vibe, the vast majority of downtown Brooklyn is desirable and livable with tons of subway lines, vibrancy, shopping, restaurants, and a strong quality of life.
Oakland is on a different level than Brooklyn, and has a lot of work to do for its downtown to grow like Brooklyn's.
Interesting that you bring Newark up in this context, however.
Yes, most of downtown Newark still looks like it got beaten with a stick. But it's neither totally abandoned nor mostly empty, and there are signs of reinvestment in several places — like the Dinosaur BBQ restaurant on Market Street (oops! Just looked it up online and see it's been shuttered, I presume due to the pandemic) and the Whole Foods Market on Broad Street, across Military Park from the NJPAC and Carl Dranoff's One Theater Square apartment tower. I also see that the building containing the Whole Foods, a former department store, now has apartments on its upper floors too.
And, of course, Newark's leading corporate citizen — The Prudential Insurance Company of America — never gave up on the downtown. I note that most of the reinvestment I mention above is located right around its headquarters.
Seems to me like the rejuvenation of downtown Newark is already progressing, the closing of Dinosaur BBQ notwithstanding.
I would say Philadelphia would have the closest resemblance. I think downtown Brooklyn is still smaller though, but the foot traffic between them would probably be comparable. If downtown Brooklyn continues going at the pace it has been, it can probably compete with the top 10 cities in about 10 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd
I haven’t been to downtown Brooklyn since 2005 so I can’t comment on how it is today. A lot has changed since then. And even then, a lot had changed since I was there in ‘98. At the time, it wasn’t very impressive, but it was a short walk to some great neighborhoods. Atlantic Ave. was pretty neat too with the Muslim community and their shops and businesses.
There have been huge changes from 2005 until now. Its almost a completely different neighborhood.
Brooklyn is like Philadelphia or JC. Grimey, gritty overall. Nice brownstones/rowhomes, adjacent to sketchy neighborhoods, some nice skyscraper development, a central artery downtown strip, etc. Some posh neighbrohoods here and there, coastline yuppy areas, some areas that look like a warzone etc.
This is a pretty good description overall!
Except the "warzone" piece. There are no areas in downtown Brooklyn that have any rows of abandoned buildings, vacant lots, burnt out buildings or areas that are just sitting in a state of long term disprepair--on a grand scale. In my mind, that is the description for "warzone" like areas in cities. Cities that do have areas like this are Baltimore, Hartford, CT, some neighborhoods in Philly, St Louis, Cleveland, Detroit--mostly rust belt cities with populations and industries that have fled on a larger scale.
There are some streets in downtown Brooklyn that could use some updating development, and have some characters loitering and chillin in front of them playing music, selling certain items (lol), and generally not doing much. But these are the exception, and not the rule.
I think in a borough with as many people as Brooklyn, the big city "rough element" will always be there to some degree. But the downtown Brooklyn of 2022 is night/day different in an incredibly better way, than the downtown Brooklyn of 1982, for example.
Except the "warzone" piece. There are no areas in downtown Brooklyn that have any rows of abandoned buildings, vacant lots, burnt out buildings or areas that are just sitting in a state of long term disprepair--on a grand scale. In my mind, that is the description for "warzone" like areas in cities. Cities that do have areas like this are Baltimore, Hartford, CT, some neighborhoods in Philly, St Louis, Cleveland, Detroit--mostly rust belt cities with populations and industries that have fled on a larger scale.
There are some streets in downtown Brooklyn that could use some updating development, and have some characters loitering and chillin in front of them playing music, selling certain items (lol), and generally not doing much. But these are the exception, and not the rule.
I think in a borough with as many people as Brooklyn, the big city "rough element" will always be there to some degree. But the downtown Brooklyn of 2022 is night/day different in an incredibly better way, than the downtown Brooklyn of 1982, for example.
My point overall was its a bit of eveything. I see sooo much of PHL and JC combined in making Brooklyn. Or vice versa. I don't know how to describe it lol
Except the "warzone" piece. There are no areas in downtown Brooklyn that have any rows of abandoned buildings, vacant lots, burnt out buildings or areas that are just sitting in a state of long term disprepair--on a grand scale. In my mind, that is the description for "warzone" like areas in cities. Cities that do have areas like this are Baltimore, Hartford, CT, some neighborhoods in Philly, St Louis, Cleveland, Detroit--mostly rust belt cities with populations and industries that have fled on a larger scale.
There are some streets in downtown Brooklyn that could use some updating development, and have some characters loitering and chillin in front of them playing music, selling certain items (lol), and generally not doing much. But these are the exception, and not the rule.
I think in a borough with as many people as Brooklyn, the big city "rough element" will always be there to some degree. But the downtown Brooklyn of 2022 is night/day different in an incredibly better way, than the downtown Brooklyn of 1982, for example.
Brooklyn is too expensive to have abandoned buildings. The only abandoned buildings are probably active construction sites. Even deep in the hood.
My point overall was its a bit of eveything. I see sooo much of PHL and JC combined in making Brooklyn. Or vice versa. I don't know how to describe it lol
Its the patina of Northeast grey, rust, exhaust, and black sidewalk gum from the 1980s. You know it when you see it.
Looking at some street-level and skyline pics, my immediate first thought is it reminds me of downtown Oakland.
Definitely not as far as skylines. Oakland NIMBYs fight tall buildings.
At street level, I don't want Oakland to head in the direction of Brooklyn.
Downtown Oakland is softer and brighter imo because of the lake. DT has the HQ of Kaiser Permanente, the HQ of Clorox, the HQ of Blue Shield, the HQ of the University of California system, a massive port, a bustling chinatown, scores of high tech start ups and artists etc. and thousands of new housing units. Oakland grew by 12% in the 2020 census, adding 50,000 people, much of that in downtown. The issue that scares me is the gentrification. It's happening super fast already and I dont like it.
So respectfully, I love DT BK and likeness to Oakland has been made in the past, but I like Oakland the way it is.
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