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Yup, and they’ve cherry-picked Google Maps pics too. Showing small sections of downtown Annapolis. I don’t have the desire to put in the effort now, but I can post some google maps views of Annapolis that much more closely resemble Charleston. And Annapolis (and Maryland) is technically a Southern city per the census. Outside of the immediate Baltimore-DC metro area, the state still does have many southern characteristics, and the Baltimore DC metro area is more neutral in feel than it is northeastern.
Actually, I will grant you that. President John F. Kennedy once famously said that Washington "combined Southern efficiency and Northern charm."
However: Baltimore IMO looks and feels more industrial than any Southern city save for Birmingham.
@MarketStEl I appreciate your well explained responses. I've read a few of your posts in the past and know you put thought into them. I think that Ive just been frustrated by the vapid nature of most posts on similar subjects lately. I find that people use the north/south, confederate or not as a way to be intellectually lazy. I only mentioned it in my post to show how Ridgid that line of reasoning is and how nuanced it actually is in real life. For example, your mention of Kentucky. It is a border state but is objectively more southern than Virginia in 2022. I would also add that Richmond and Louisville are probably two of the most comparable cities in the country. Let me put it this way...I'm a person from DC living in New England. If I start to feel homesick I'm not going to go to Portsmouth to remind me of home. Thoughts about how both Maryland and NH didn't leave the union won't make me feel all warm inside lol. Heck, even Baltimore has Dundalk. Nuance.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDFan
Nope. Not really Southern at all. Sorry. Frankly, a decent portion of the South is not very Southern in 2022.
I was in Annapolis a few weeks back. There's 0 trace of traditional "Southern" there 0.00% . It's also no trace of being a New England place either. The mid-Atlantic has it's own identity separate from either.
Only in this C-D world does never ending North/South debate still exist.
The East Coast has three main regions (not two) culturally in 2022. The Northeast/New England, the Mid-Atlantic, and the South Atlantic/Piedmont. If one doesn't notice that by now I really don't know what to tell you.
Anywho regarding these two cities, structurally and housing stock wise Annapolis is more like Portsmouth in this comparison than it is Charleston, SC.
I was in Annapolis a few weeks back. There's 0 trace of traditional "Southern" there 0.00% . It's also no trace of being a New England place either. The mid-Atlantic has it's own identity separate from either.
Only in this C-D world does never ending North/South debate still exist.
The East Coast has three main regions (not two) culturally in 2022. The Northeast/New England, the Mid-Atlantic, and the South Atlantic/Piedmont. If one doesn't notice that by now I really don't know what to tell you.
Anywho regarding these two cities, structurally and housing stock wise Annapolis is more like Portsmouth in this comparison than it is Charleston, SC.
I can respect this reasoning and fully agree with your assertions in reference to mid Atlantic. I just can't take posts that only add one word responses to the Convo seriously lol. Any post that starts with "after looking at Google maps I have no doubt" I just have to shake my head at lol. I, personally, find New England to be pretty different from the DMV. Regardless of both areas being in the north today. Even if Maryland was physically located where CT is, I would still expect more detailed reasoning for similarities other than they are both in the north. If I am considering a move to one area that information does not help me in the slightest.
I was in Annapolis a few weeks back. There's 0 trace of traditional "Southern" there 0.00% . It's also no trace of being a New England place either. The mid-Atlantic has it's own identity separate from either.
Only in this C-D world does never ending North/South debate still exist.
The East Coast has three main regions (not two) culturally in 2022. The Northeast/New England, the Mid-Atlantic, and the South Atlantic/Piedmont. If one doesn't notice that by now I really don't know what to tell you.
Anywho regarding these two cities, structurally and housing stock wise Annapolis is more like Portsmouth in this comparison than it is Charleston, SC.
I grew up in the south and have lived all across this country. I'm in the west coast now. At least in my conversations, nobody think Nova/Maryland are southern. And there's certainly debate on Virginia as a whole. It's North Carolina to basically east Texas.
In fact DC often gets lumped in with Philly, NYC and Boston as just northern cities. I disagree as I do think Mid-Atlantic is a region.
@MarketStEl I appreciate your well explained responses. I've read a few of your posts in the past and know you put thought into them. I think that Ive just been frustrated by the vapid nature of most posts on similar subjects lately. I find that people use the north/south, confederate or not as a way to be intellectually lazy. I only mentioned it in my post to show how Ridgid that line of reasoning is and how nuanced it actually is in real life. For example, your mention of Kentucky. It is a border state but is objectively more southern than Virginia in 2022. I would also add that Richmond and Louisville are probably two of the most comparable cities in the country. Let me put it this way...I'm a person from DC living in New England. If I start to feel homesick I'm not going to go to Portsmouth to remind me of home. Thoughts about how both Maryland and NH didn't leave the union won't make me feel all warm inside lol. Heck, even Baltimore has Dundalk. Nuance.
Thanks.
This native Missourian tends to bristle when outsiders label the state "Southern," yet parts of it are undeniably so. The entire state had mandatory school segregation, but not segregated public transportation, nor were its Black citizens disenfranchised once they got the vote — Boss Tom Pendergast treated them as just another ethnic group to rope into his Democratic coalition during the decades he ran Kansas City (and later Missouri as a whole).
The so-called "Burnt District" south of Kansas City was where Union generals ordered all Confederate sympathizers outside of the Town of Kansas itself away from the Kansas border, then destroyed their homes.
St. Louis feels Eastern, KC Western. And so on.
Believe me, I get nuance. Missouri is full of it.
And point about Dundalk taken. Maryland's state flag, the coolest of all 50, was adopted in 1905 as a symbol of North-South reconciliation (the black-and-gold arms of the Calvert family were sported by Union partisans, while Confederate sympathizers took to wearing those of the Crosslands, one of whose members had married a Calvert).
Now for a strange parallel of sorts: Just like Chicagoans plaster their symbol-rich coolest city flag in the country on absolutely everything, Marylanders do the same with their state flag. The New Hampshire analogue is the state motto, "Live Free or Die," which appears on license plates and welcome signs at the state line, along with the now-gone Old Man of the Mountains. (There was a free-speech case involving a New Hampshire resident who taped over the slogan on his plate. The state sued for defacing state property; the resident won in court on free-speech grounds. He later moved to Connecticut, where he proceeded to tape over the words "Constitution State" on that state's license plates.)
Edited to add: Oh, and: Agreed about Kentucky vs. Virginia, with the exception of Virginia's Southside counties along the NC border. Isn't Richmond removing the statues of Confederate generals along Monument Avenue?
Last edited by MarketStEl; 03-14-2022 at 08:00 AM..
I was in Annapolis a few weeks back. There's 0 trace of traditional "Southern" there 0.00% . It's also no trace of being a New England place either. The mid-Atlantic has it's own identity separate from either.
Only in this C-D world does never ending North/South debate still exist.
The East Coast has three main regions (not two) culturally in 2022. The Northeast/New England, the Mid-Atlantic, and the South Atlantic/Piedmont. If one doesn't notice that by now I really don't know what to tell you.
Anywho regarding these two cities, structurally and housing stock wise Annapolis is more like Portsmouth in this comparison than it is Charleston, SC.
Actually, I will grant you that. President John F. Kennedy once famously said that Washington "combined Southern efficiency and Northern charm."
However: Baltimore IMO looks and feels more industrial than any Southern city save for Birmingham.
soo many garden styles apartments/meadows and townhomes though. So many arterial roads/freeways in town... Pretty different than the northeast in that respect. Its a hybrid.
The southern mid Atlantic (MD/DE) has some southern traits in terms of accents/fast food chains/history development patterns and styles. Certainly more people from the "true" south living there.
I think as someone from New England-it's more noticeable than for 95% of the country. My idea of what is northern is pretty strict. Points south of Philly begin the transition. But you're not really decidedly in the south until your south of Richmond.
Annapolis has a lot of outwardly Trumpy folks and a lot of those garden-style apartments and dense suburban subdivisions you don't see much of in NJ CT MA. They exist for sure- but on a much smaller scale and much more sporadically. Different ethnic makeup too.
Downtown Annapolis feels like it could be a New England town, but outlying areas feel a bit more southern- like in a Colonial Virginia way. Havent been to Charleston really, just the airport.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 03-14-2022 at 09:39 AM..
soo many garden styles apartments/meadows and townhomes though. So many arterial roads/freeways in town... Pretty different than the northeast in that respect. Its a hybrid.
The southern mid Atlantic (MD/DE) has some southern traits in terms of accents/fast food chains/history development patterns and styles. Certainly more people from the "true" south living there.
I think as someone from New England-it's more noticeable than for 95% of the country. My idea of what is northern is pretty strict. Points south of Philly begin the transition. But you're not really decidedly in the south until your south of Richmond.
Annapolis has a lot of outwardly Trumpy folks and a lot of those garden-style apartments and dense suburban subdivisions you don't see much of in NJ CT MA. They exist for sure- but on a much smaller scale and much more sporadically. Different ethnic makeup too.
Downtown Annapolis feels like it could be a New England town, but outlying areas feel a bit more southern- like in a Colonial Virginia way. Havent been to Charleston really, just the airport.
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