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This pretty much sums up the appeal of New Orleans to the C-D crowd.
The arguments made by SweetHomeSA are valid…. New Orleans is a playground for adults (who like that lifestyle) while San Antonio is more family-oriented (e.g., Fiesta Texas, SeaWorld, etc.).
Both cities have historical significance that most U.S. cities don’t have.
It’s not the city data crowd and it’s not just USA. You hear people throughout Europe etc talk about New Orleans and Mardi Gras. You rarely hear about San Antonio and you never ever hear about Fiesta
I live in Texas and have barely even heard of Fiesta. Imagine saying Fiesta is a bigger draw than Mardi Gras lol! Fiesta isn’t even as big as the Houston Rodeo, Texas State Fair or SXSW but even those 3 aren’t in the same stratosphere as Mardi Gras as it comes to tourism.
Over the years I grew up in Texas, I didn't hear about Fiesta until I was near graduating from high school and even then, I had no desire to go there and experience it. Not dissing it but I'd rather visit SA for other things than Fiesta. Texas as a whole really does a poor job of marketing itself outside of business.
Over the years I grew up in Texas, I didn't hear about Fiesta until I was near graduating from high school and even then, I had no desire to go there and experience it. Not dissing it but I'd rather visit SA for other things than Fiesta. Texas as a whole really does a poor job of marketing itself outside of business.
You’re right about the marketing aspect. I’m a native Houstonian and I wasn’t quite sure what this “Fiesta” was. I thought it had to do with Cinco de Mayo or Fiestas Patrias…. But I was wrong! Apparently it is a Spring festival that has been going on for a very long time:
SAN ANTONIO — San Antonio's Fiesta is right around the corner, and we've got everything you need to know to make your 2022 Fiesta plans.
The 11-day festival runs from March 31 to April 10, with dozens of events across the city. The economic impact of Fiesta is more than $340 million.
“The Battle of Flowers parade has been around for more than 100 years. It began in 1891 as a celebration to honor the heroes of the Alamo, Goliad and the Battle of San Jacinto, according to the parade's website.”
And PS I agree that Mardi Gras and Carnival are synonymous with New Orleans and Brazil - internationally known events.
SanJac no one is saying SA doesn't have its strengths. It is easier to make a living there than NOLA.
But SweetHomeSA comments were not talking up the areas that SA is better than NOLA in. He was comparing the two on tourism, festivals and historic areas. These are easy wins for SA if we are comparing Texas Cities, but against New Orleans it gets blown out of the water.
Sayin that both are historic doesn't fly. It's all relative. To a Texan SA has the most points of interest. To Texas and Louisiana, New Orleans easily out classes SA. Nationally, Boston and Philadelphia outclasses New Orleans. Worldwide, Boston and Philly gets out classes by dozens of cities. So is all relative and must be looked at in context.
SA just doesn't ooze history like New Orleans.
Take for example Jackson Square. Just that one square has more relevance to the US than all of San Antonio.
The Square itself is not only designated as a National Historic Landmark, but the buildings all around it also individually have that designation in addition to the entire downtown receiving that designation..
A huge portion of the slaves destined for the Mississippi Delta were sold in Jackson Square.
I'm going by memory so correct me if there are errors but around Jackson Square there is:
St Louis Cathedral- the oldest continuous Cathedral in the US. I am not big on churches but this one has a commanding presence from the river, and I'm in always up for a good ghost story and this church is said to be haunted by Father Anthony, who is buried in the church and who was good friends with the Voodoo Queen Marie Laveau.
The Cabildo and Presbytere are almost identical buildings on either side of St Louis Cathedral. Both are in the national register of historic places.
The Cabildo is where the Louisiana Purchase was signed. That alone is of more national significance than anything in San Antonio. It was also used as the seat of the Louisiana Supreme Court and was the site of the famous Plessy vs Ferguson decision.
Pontalba Buildings are on the west and east sides of Jackson Square. Again both are on the national register of historic places. Both are said to be the oldest continuously used apartment buildings in the US.
Cafe during Monde, I wouldn't say it's historic, but it is popular with tourists for the Cafe Oles and Beigniets. It's on the southeast corner of Jackson Square.
The Jax Brewery is no longer in operation but it was once the largest brewery in the South. It's in the Southwest corner of the square.
North East from the Square is Muriels. Again not all that important to history, but it is located in a charming 18th century building and againin always up for a good ghost story, it is said to be one of the more popular buildings in the quarter for ghosts.
Pirates Alley and Father Anthony alley are on the west and east side of St Louis Cathedral. Both are said to be haunted. Faulkner House books is a book store in Pirate's Alley, in the former home of famous Author William Faulkner.
So there we have it. One little Square surrounded on all sides by history. I can't think of anywhere in San Antonio that is surrounded on all sides with individually listed national historic places and was the site of historic events of the caliber of the Louisiana Purchase. Now Boston, Baltimore and Philly has some heavy hitters of more national importance, but San Antonio? No way.
You make me want to visit New Orleans again! The historic angle is more interesting to me than the festivals, etc.
Having said that, I get your point that New Orleans is more historical to U.S. history. San Antonio is more relevant to Spanish, Mexican, and Texas history.
SanJac no one is saying SA doesn't have its strengths. It is easier to make a living there than NOLA.
But SweetHomeSA comments were not talking up the areas that SA is better than NOLA in. He was comparing the two on tourism, festivals and historic areas. These are easy wins for SA if we are comparing Texas Cities, but against New Orleans it gets blown out of the water.
Sayin that both are historic doesn't fly. It's all relative. To a Texan SA has the most points of interest. To Texas and Louisiana, New Orleans easily out classes SA. Nationally, Boston and Philadelphia outclasses New Orleans. Worldwide, Boston and Philly gets out classes by dozens of cities. So is all relative and must be looked at in context.
SA just doesn't ooze history like New Orleans.
Take for example Jackson Square. Just that one square has more relevance to the US than all of San Antonio.
The Square itself is not only designated as a National Historic Landmark, but the buildings all around it also individually have that designation in addition to the entire downtown receiving that designation..
A huge portion of the slaves destined for the Mississippi Delta were sold in Jackson Square.
I'm going by memory so correct me if there are errors but around Jackson Square there is:
St Louis Cathedral- the oldest continuous Cathedral in the US. I am not big on churches but this one has a commanding presence from the river, and I'm in always up for a good ghost story and this church is said to be haunted by Father Anthony, who is buried in the church and who was good friends with the Voodoo Queen Marie Laveau.
The Cabildo and Presbytere are almost identical buildings on either side of St Louis Cathedral. Both are in the national register of historic places.
The Cabildo is where the Louisiana Purchase was signed. That alone is of more national significance than anything in San Antonio. It was also used as the seat of the Louisiana Supreme Court and was the site of the famous Plessy vs Ferguson decision.
Pontalba Buildings are on the west and east sides of Jackson Square. Again both are on the national register of historic places. Both are said to be the oldest continuously used apartment buildings in the US.
Cafe during Monde, I wouldn't say it's historic, but it is popular with tourists for the Cafe Oles and Beigniets. It's on the southeast corner of Jackson Square.
The Jax Brewery is no longer in operation but it was once the largest brewery in the South. It's in the Southwest corner of the square.
North East from the Square is Muriels. Again not all that important to history, but it is located in a charming 18th century building and againin always up for a good ghost story, it is said to be one of the more popular buildings in the quarter for ghosts.
Pirates Alley and Father Anthony alley are on the west and east side of St Louis Cathedral. Both are said to be haunted. Faulkner House books is a book store in Pirate's Alley, in the former home of famous Author William Faulkner.
So there we have it. One little Square surrounded on all sides by history. I can't think of anywhere in San Antonio that is surrounded on all sides with individually listed national historic places and was the site of historic events of the caliber of the Louisiana Purchase. Now Boston, Baltimore and Philly has some heavy hitters of more national importance, but San Antonio? No way.
The Alamo facade is a more visually recognized landmark than anything in New Orleans. I do agree New Orleans played a pivotal role in the formation of the southern states joining the union. But there are no structures other than the St. Louis Cathedral that are as famous as the Alamo. The average person will recognize the Alamo over anything in New Orleans.
The Presbytere and the Calbido are historically significant but just not as recognizable as the Alamo. The French quarter as a whole is more recognizable than these two stand alone landmarks.
The St. Louis Cathedral that stands today was rebuilt in the 1850s and is not the original structure that was first built. The structure burned down in 1788 and was rebuilt later. It is not the oldest because of this.
The San Fernando Cathedral begin construction in 1738 -1750 and has evolved into the structure that stands today This makes it one of the oldest in the country.
To discount the history of Texas(Alamo and San Jacinto) and say it wasn't relevant to the forming of this country with the likes of New Orleans is just downright ridiculous. I never once said San Antonio or Texas had more historical significance. I said it was unique and historic like New Orleans and has more similarities than the other two cities mentioned in this thread.
Texas was settled in 1682 and Louisiana in 1699. San Antonio's foundation dates back to 1691 and founded in 1718 the same year as New Orleans.
The Alamo is the "Cradle of Texas Liberty.' If Texas hadn't joined the United States then there probably wouldn't be a California, Arizona, Nevada, or Colorado.
New Orleans doesn't have a famous slogan like "Remember the Alamo." Or Pee Wee Herman running around looking for a basement. Hah. It may I'm just not aware of anything other than it's nickname the "Big Easy.'
Texas and California are the 5th and 9th biggest economies in the world. The United States probably wouldn't be the number one superpower without these two states. Louisiana is important as well with the port of New Orleans. Just saying.
I am no history buff, but when I think of New Orleans the first thing that comes to mind are; Mardi Gras, all night partying, bourbon street, French Quarter, and Jazz music. I don't think of the historic aspect of New Orleans as much as the other things aforesaid.
People go to New Orleans to soak up the nightlife moreso than to see the St.Louis Cathedral. People go to San Antonio to see the Alamo and to visit the much lesser historical significant Riverwalk. This is why San Antonio has a stigma of being just known for the Alamo and the Riverwalk even though there is a lot more to San Antonio. I guess it's not a bad thing having a well established city brand.
When people think of San Antonio, people think of the Alamo first and foremost followed by the Riverwalk. This is why I feel the history of San Antonio and Texas(Alamo)is more recognized in a visual sense than the Louisiana Purchase or what took place at Jackson square and St.Louis Cathedral.
I'm not discounting the importance of these places but there isn't any one stand alone structure that is as iconic as the Alamo at least on a visual standpoint.
The St Louis cathedral, French Quarter and the Superdome are the most recognized landmarks In New Orleans in my opinion. The iconic structures of San Antonio are; the Alamo, Riverwalk, the Unesco World Heritage missions, and Tower of the Americas.
The following are several of the many Unesco World Heritage landmarks around the globe; Taj Mahal, Pompeii, Stonehenge, Cathedral Notre-Dame, Great Wall of China, Vatican City, Tower of London, Statue of Liberty, Independence Hall and just recently the Alamo and it's Missions.
aforesaid in one of my first replies to this thread. Both New Orleans and San Antonio are two cities that are unique and historic compared with most cities in the Sunbelt.
Last edited by SweethomeSanAntonio; 04-01-2022 at 10:04 PM..
The Alamo facade is a more visually recognized landmark than anything in New Orleans. I do agree New Orleans played a pivotal role in the formation of the southern states joining the union. But there are no structures other than the St. Louis Cathedral that are as famous as the Alamo. The average person will recognize the Alamo over anything in New Orleans.
The Presbytere and the Calbido are historically significant but just not as recognizable as the Alamo. The French quarter as a whole is more recognizable than these two stand alone landmarks.
The St. Louis Cathedral that stands today was rebuilt in the 1850s and is not the original structure that was first built. The structure burned down in 1788 and was rebuilt later. It is not the oldest because of this.
The San Fernando Cathedral begin construction in 1738 -1750 and has evolved into the structure that stands today This makes it one of the oldest in the country.
To discount the history of Texas(Alamo and San Jacinto) and say it wasn't relevant to the forming of this country with the likes of New Orleans is just downright ridiculous. I never once said San Antonio or Texas had more historical significance. I said it was unique and historic like New Orleans and has more similarities than the other two cities mentioned in this thread.
Texas was settled in 1682 and Louisiana in 1699. San Antonio's foundation dates back to 1691 and founded in 1718 the same year as New Orleans.
The Alamo is the "Cradle of Texas Liberty.' If Texas hadn't joined the United States then there probably wouldn't be a California, Arizona, Nevada, or Colorado.
New Orleans doesn't have a famous slogan like "Remember the Alamo." Or Pee Wee Herman running around looking for a basement. Hah. It may I'm just not aware of anything other than it's nickname the "Big Easy.'
Texas and California are the 5th and 9th biggest economies in the world. The United States probably wouldn't be the number one superpower without these two states. Louisiana is important as well with the port of New Orleans. Just saying.
I am no history buff, but when I think of New Orleans the first thing that comes to mind are; Mardi Gras, all night partying, bourbon street, French Quarter, and Jazz music. I don't think of the historic aspect of New Orleans as much as the other things aforesaid.
People go to New Orleans to soak up the nightlife moreso than to see the St.Louis Cathedral. People go to San Antonio to see the Alamo and to visit the much lesser historical significant Riverwalk. This is why San Antonio has a stigma of being just known for the Alamo and the Riverwalk even though there is a lot more to San Antonio. I guess it's not a bad thing having a well established city brand.
When people think of San Antonio, people think of the Alamo first and foremost followed by the Riverwalk. This is why I feel the history of San Antonio and Texas(Alamo)is more recognized in a visual sense than the Louisiana Purchase or what took place at Jackson square and St.Louis Cathedral.
I'm not discounting the importance of these places but there isn't any one stand alone structure that is as iconic as the Alamo at least on a visual standpoint.
The St Louis cathedral, French Quarter and the Superdome are the most recognized landmarks In New Orleans in my opinion. The iconic structures of San Antonio are; the Alamo, Riverwalk, the Unesco World Heritage missions, and Tower of the Americas.
The following are several of the many Unesco World Heritage landmarks around the globe; Taj Mahal, Pompeii, Stonehenge, Cathedral Notre-Dame, Great Wall of China, Vatican City, Tower of London, Statue of Liberty, Independence Hall and just recently the Alamo and it's Missions.
aforesaid in one of my first replies to this thread. Both New Orleans and San Antonio are two cities that are unique and historic compared with most cities in the Sunbelt.
Man this is wild.
Even being a city-data guy for over a decade, I don't know what the Alamo looks like off the top of my head. Most people wouldn't. Most people wouldn't know the St. Louis Cathedral either. Most people would recognize Bourbon Street or a Mardi Gras parade probably about as well or better than the Alamo.
San Antonio is historic, but it doesn't feel that way much. New Orleans was much larger in the 19th century. San Antonio was a small town in 1850 while New Orleans was the 5th largest in the country. The urban core reflects that in the downtown and Uptown neighborhoods, as well as Mid-City.
You say you don't think of history when you think of New Orleans but Mardi Gras, its party atmosphere, the French Quarter, and Jazz are all incredibly historic parts of the city. People do plantation tours, that's history. There are ghost tours galore, that's also historic.
Have you never heard of laissez le bon temps rouler?
The Alamo isn't that visually recognized outside of Texas. People know it, but it's not like its the Statue of Liberty. As far as attractions, Bourbon St is far more famous than the Alamo. But I'll give you this, New Orleans doesn't have one single building that's as famous/important as the Alamo. But the city as a whole is definitely more important historically speaking.
Amenities: DFW/SA
Architecture: NO/H, but only because of New Orleans.
Cost of living:
Crime: DFW/SA
Culture: DFW/SA
Diversity: they're all pretty diverse.
Downtowns: New Orleans is unique here.
Food: DFW/SA
Friendliness: Dallas can be a bit more pretentious, so NO/H
Future of those cities: DFW/SA
Good place to live/visit: DFW/SA though I can understand the appeal of visiting New Orleans. I've done it twice and hope to never see the place ever again.
Growth: DFW/NA. Houston isn't enough on its own to offset New Orleans.
Outdoor activity. The weather is terrible in all these places. I'd never leave my house. But, some like Texas hill country for that.
Political views: They all seem somewhat similar.
Population density: ? What's considered good or bad? Elbow room or on top of each other? They're all similar here.
Quality of life: DFW/SA
Skyline: None really stand out, but DFW/SA
Shopping: DFW/SA
Sports culture: DFW/SA
Things to do: DFW/SA
Weather: DFW/SA are a bit drier than the sauna that is the Gulf Coast. I had to chuckle at the "San Antonio has harsher winters" or some such comment. Seriously, that's hilarious.
Overall I'd pick DFW and San Antonio. Houston is one of my least favorites anywhere and New Orleans is a hot mess.
Talking about DFW/SA has better food, culture, amenities. Things to do... than Hou/NOLA.
The part about the Alamo being mote recognizable than anything in NOLA really cracked me up. I lived in SA for 4 years and the Alamo is totally forgettable.
Also, remember the Alamo is not a city slogan. It's a Texas slogan to ganner support for Texas's war for independence like a 175 years ago. Don't mess with Texas has long been the most popular slogan in Texas.
Laissez les bontemp roullez (let the good times role) is a city slogan known nationally as a slogan for New Orleans. There are also others, like for those who gallows football, they will know that "Who Dat" is a slogan for the Saints.
Another thing that is hilarious is that Texas somehow have us California.
California was explored before Texas, there were European settlements in California before Texas. California in more than one occasion was is own republic, independent from Mexico, the US and was never a part of the Texas Republic. At its biggest, the Republic of Texas included All of current day Texas, about Half of New Mexico, the Pan Handle of Oklahoma, and small slithers of Kansas, Colorado and Wyoming.
Arizona, Utah and California were never part of Texas.
So yes, Texas increased the size of the US, but California was not part of that.
The Louisiana Purchase on the other had doubled the size of the US and made way for westward expansion to states like Texas. Here is a map to compare the visuals of both : https://images.app.goo.gl/yZuQRFdBdDEk6FC36
Finally, San Antonio was a small outpost at the time of the Texas War for independence. The entire Texas colony consisted of about 1200 settlers and 400 slaves.
And the Alamo was pure and simply propaganda.
It wasn't even an active mission anymore at the time of the war.
THE REALITY IS THE ALAMO WAS AN ABANDONED MISSION THAT SOME REALLY STUPID PEOPLE DECIDED TO HIDE IN WHEN THEY WERE WARNED THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PROTECT THE CITY AND THAT THEY SHOULD RETREAT.
the defenders of the Alamo story is just propaganda to drum up support. Mexico had outlawed Slavery and the so called defenders of the Alamo were not defending the Alamo, they were fighting for the right to perpetuate Slavery in an area where it was illegal.
The Alama was where these ridiculous folks got massacred. The really important aspects of Texas History happened between the Brazos and San Jacinto Rivers (modern day Metropolitan Houston).
The original 300 families settled in the Brazos Valley area down towards the gulf coast. Their capital was San Felipe de Austin (in Austin County in metro Houston, not the city of Austin).
The Texas Convention which organized the state was held in Washington on the Brazos (again in metro Houston).
With Santa Ana's approach the seat of government fell back to Harrisburg (now part of what is known as the east end in the city of Houston).
The war for independence was fought in San Jacinto (again in Houston).
The territory that was won didn't even include all of Texas, let alone California. The territory stretched from the Neuces River to the Red River.
It wasn't until the US annexed Texas that all these extra states came into play. The Mexican American War (not the Texas Revolution) expanded the boundaries passed the Nueces River to the Present day Rio Grande.
Propaganda again surrounding slavery caused the growing Houston area to diminish in popularity. Sam Houston was against secession and the backlash affected everything related to his name. Incl the city that bore it.
San Antonio became the city most associated with Texas History, but the only notable part San Antonio played was propaganda
We’re moving into conspiracy theories now, with truths mixed in with revisionist history theories. It almost feels like the Texans vs. the non-Texans…. I think the point SweetHomeSA made is valid that New Orleans and San Antonio, because of their historical significance are good counterparts to Houston and Dallas (although as atadytic19 has rightly pointed out Houston has much more historical significance to Texas independence than DFW).
I wonder if a Houston/San Antonio vs. Dallas/New Orleans pairing would be more competitive?
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