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Harbor
The Wire
Ft. McHenry
Urban decay/crime
Ravens/Orioles
Camden Yards
crab cakes
Johns Hopkins
Northern or Southern?
Mid-Atlantic
Heavily Black/highly segregated
Pittsburgh:
Three Rivers
Skyline/cityscape
Hills
Pitt/Carnegie Mellon
Steel
Wiz Khalifa/ "Black and Yellow"
Steelers/Penguins/Pirates
Appalachia
Rustbelt
Northeastern or Midwestern?
Heavily White major city
Seems more or less even to me but it seems Pittsburgh has a more identifiable and distinctive skyline/cityscape and that may give it the edge here.
Old Bay, The Aquarium, Natty Boh, Cherry Blossoms or Lexington Market could replace half of what you listed of Baltimore lol.
Pittsburgh has the more unique skyline/geographic setting for sure, but Baltimore’s rowhome urban vernacular is lightyears more iconic
Geographically, for sure. That being said, I’m finding it hard to argue it’s more unique than Baltimore in a cultural sense.
Yeah a lot of people are mentioning the landscape. That makes Phoenix the most unique city in the entire country, the only significantly large city in an arid climate, let alone a desert with the most unique appearing flora, some of the most poisonous and venomous animals out of any other location, contains entire mountain ranges in city limits not the outskirts surrounding the city etc. but these people would probably turn around and say Phoenix has no identity so they need to get rid of that. Phoenix sits on a 3-river delta too.
This is a cultural argument, trees hills and water are hardly unique. Now the absence of them… that’s when we start talking
Geographically, for sure. That being said, I’m finding it hard to argue it’s more unique than Baltimore in a cultural sense.
Well, the geography also shapes the way the city looks, so I would say Pittsburgh has a unique built environment because of that.
Culturally, there's quite a few distinct attributes that sets it apart. It's the only major city in Appalachia, it has a term for its local populace and dialect, it has an iconic nickname that describes its industrial past, it has a signature sandwich style.
Well, the geography also shapes the way the city looks, so I would say Pittsburgh has a unique built environment because of that.
Culturally, there's quite a few distinct attributes that sets it apart. It's the only major city in Appalachia, it has a term for its local populace and dialect, it has an iconic nickname that describes its industrial past, it has a signature sandwich style.
Baltimore has unique features as well. It also has its populace (Hons) for women, and dialect "Balmorese."
It also is known for any and everything crab related. It also has its own genre of music "Baltimore club" music. It also has a distinct architectural vernacular, while also being the only Majority rowhouse city in the south.
Yeah a lot of people are mentioning the landscape. That makes Phoenix the most unique city in the entire country, the only significantly large city in an arid climate, let alone a desert with the most unique appearing flora, some of the most poisonous and venomous animals out of any other location, contains entire mountain ranges in city limits not the outskirts surrounding the city etc. but these people would probably turn around and say Phoenix has no identity so they need to get rid of that. Phoenix sits on a 3-river delta too.
This is a cultural argument, trees hills and water are hardly unique. Now the absence of them… that’s when we start talking
The landscape really does help Phoenix with its identity. I would put it above places like Seattle or Dallas in identity even though it would get destroyed as overall cities (personally I still prefer Phoenix to those cities, but objectively it's weaker)
All cities identities are shaped by their landscape, some more than others. What would Miami be if it was in the great planes? SF bay is one of the most unique environments on Earth, imagine if it was located by Stockton or Sacramento? Impossible. Even Chicago without lake Michigan is not Chicago. Phoenix is heavily shaped by the environement, but to say the most unique city I think that's a stretch. I don't think there is any most unique, and uniqueness is only a part of strongest identity
The landscape really does help Phoenix with its identity. I would put it above places like Seattle or Dallas in identity even though it would get destroyed as overall cities (personally I still prefer Phoenix to those cities, but objectively it's weaker)
All cities identities are shaped by their landscape, some more than others. What would Miami be if it was in the great planes? SF bay is one of the most unique environments on Earth, imagine if it was located by Stockton or Sacramento? Impossible. Even Chicago without lake Michigan is not Chicago. Phoenix is heavily shaped by the environement, but to say the most unique city I think that's a stretch. I don't think there is any most unique, and uniqueness is only a part of strongest identity
The other poster was listing "three rivers" "skyline" and "hills" as if these were unique. Phoenix has three rivers: the Agua Fria, the Salt, and the Gila. Phoenix has foothills at the base of it's local internal mountain ranges as well as it outskirt mountain ranges. Phoenix also has a skyline, albeit not NYC but it still has one. Phoenix's skyline stands out to me, due to Four Peaks and other mountains standing out in the background, and usually one of our more colorful sunrises/sunsets that often accompany dusty landscapes, particularly dusty landscapes that also have smog of a big city providing an even greater color strata in the sky. Since only a handful of cities exist with mountains so close by, especially ones so naked and bare, I'd argue most people would find Phoenix's skyline easy to identify even if poorly planned and lacking in height.
Phoenix is also well known as a black sheep on this forum and often lamented as a place without an identity or a sense of place, being an almost 3-D printed copy of the same master planned communities several times over as some would describe it. So mentioning these things are not what people mean when they say "identity", and it's instead people once again cherrypicking so they have some reason to vote Pittsburgh over Baltimore. No way would these same people say that because Phoenix has scorpions, saguaros, and in one of the rarest climate types in the United States (true aridity over semi-arid like Denver/Reno/Boise/St. George, continental like SLC, and even more rare than Mediterranean which encompasses essentially everything from Seattle to San Diego on the entire West Coast, 25% of Arizona and I'm sure other places) say it has more of an identity over Houston, a city who's skyline I wouldn't immediately recognize by an image on Google, in a climate that covers almost 25% or maybe more of the L48 land mass where the trees and forests start looking very similar to one another. And looking at Houston's streetscape, I'd argue most of it looks like Anywhere USA. What might make it more clear is if a Buc-ee's, a HEB, or a Pappadeaux is in the image, but then again that's a cultural thing. Phoenix's streetscape, even if it's the same Mattress Firm, Verizon store, Chipotle and so forth as any other strip mall that exists in this country, at least usually has an architectural style I've only seen in Southern California, LV and here, and with the almost total use of xeriscaping in most of it, really narrows it down to Las Vegas or Phoenix (not even Tucson has such xeriscaping and is much better at incorporating mesquites and cacti than Phoenix is).
All I'm saying is I'm accusing people of cherrypicking qualities when it suits their bias, and wouldn't apply it to other cities. Not that landscapes aren't unique and aren't part of a city's identity, but they at least need to be applying those qualities fairly. Phoenix would lose probably based on popular opinion to any of these "identity" comparison threads that have been popping up lately, and wouldn't be given these same qualities to compare to buff Phoenix in their eyes over "bland cultureless suburbia in the dirt". I'm just saying if you wouldn't give them to Phoenix in a thread comparing the city to Dallas or Boston then don't use it here, plain and simple.
Baltimore wins on the sole grounds that people are bringing those environmental qualities/setting for Pittsburgh, but not bringing up the intricacies of the Chesapeake and the surrounding Maryland environs in favor of Baltimore, while also in addition bringing up significantly more cultural things for Baltimore and having less cultural things to mention for Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh also has urban decay, have you seen the state of Pittsburgh's transit lately? It looks like it's over a century old.
I just don't think people are comparing these two cities in earnest, playing to bias of which city they may prefer living in instead of bringing everything to the table. One can prefer wanting to live in a place with less of an "identity" than another city, and that's fine. But Baltimore has a lot more history and more quirks, and that's ok here.
Well, the geography also shapes the way the city looks, so I would say Pittsburgh has a unique built environment because of that.
Pittsburgh has its hills. Baltimore has its harbor. If you took a picture from their best vantage points, neither are being confused for anything but themselves.
The difference is if you showed a person of a “random” street in Pittsburgh vs. Baltimore the latter would be the more recognizable. That’s what I mean about urban environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nadnerb
Culturally, there's quite a few distinct attributes that sets it apart. It's the only major city in Appalachia, it has a term for its local populace and dialect, it has an iconic nickname that describes its industrial past, it has a signature sandwich style.
Baltimore has all of these and then some. It’s not a slight to Pittsburgh, Baltimore just has longer and richer history and it’s palpable the second you enter the city.
Steelers. what’s the name of Baltimores football team?
Ravens.
But my point is: Pittsburgh remains strongly identified with the material that gives the football team its name. The team logo is even copied from the old logo of the steel industry trade association. And the iconic American steelmaker, U.S. Steel, is still headquartered there.* Just as we still call Detroit "Motown" or "the Motor City," Pittsburgh remains the Steel City.
Yes, there are plenty of people who know Edgar Allen Poe lived in Baltimore, but I'd say that the famous person-city connection is less prominent for Poe than it is for, say, Benjamin Franklin and Philadelphia. (I guess we could have named one of our teams the Kites or the Lightning.)
*BTW, so is the leading producer of aluminum in the country, Alcoa (originally Aluminum Company of America).
I’m no Steeler fan but I’ll admit that they definitely help Pittsburgh’s identity. Alongside the Cowboys and Packers, they’re arguably the biggest brand in the NFL. If it wasn’t for the Steelers, I don’t think Pittsburgh’s identity would be as strong.
Baltimore is kind of overshadowed by D.C. but it has a strong identity of its own, too. Crabs, the inner harbor, The Wire, etc.
It’s pretty even, but if it matters, I’d wager that more Americans have been to Baltimore over Pittsburgh. Unless Pittsburgh is your destination, there aren’t a lot of reasons to visit or drive through the area. Even if you’re driving from New York to Chicago, I don’t think you’d pass through Pittsburgh. On the other hand, Baltimore is right on I-95 in the middle of the East Coast. There’s far more traffic passing through Baltimore.
Just as in the days of the railroads, you could take the New York Central's 20th Century Limited via the "Water Level Route" across upstate New York or the Pennsylvania Railroad's Broadway Limited via Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, you could take either the New York State Thruway or the New Jersey and Pennsylvania turnpikes to reach Ohio, and from there continue west on to Chicago.
But most NY-Chicago traffic will take toll-free I-80 across northern Pennsylvania instead, thus missing all of the cities east of South Bend, Ind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joakim3
Pittsburgh has its hills. Baltimore has its harbor. If you took a picture from their best vantage points, neither are being confused for anything but themselves.
The difference is if you showed a person of a “random” street in Pittsburgh vs. Baltimore the latter would be the more recognizable. That’s what I mean about urban environment.
Baltimore has all of these and then some. It’s not a slight to Pittsburgh, Baltimore just has longer and richer history and it’s palpable the second you enter the city.
What's Baltimore's signature sandwich/sandwich style? Crabs and Old Bay I know, but I don't know that.
What's Baltimore's signature sandwich/sandwich style? Crabs and Old Bay I know, but I don't know that.
Baltimore invented the Pit-Beef sandwhich back in there 70’s. It only plays second fiddle to the obvious crab/old bay-ification of well, everything.
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