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Just because DFW is a good place for a layover doesn't mean it is important. It's probably the closest top 20 metro to the US center of population so I would think it's airport would be the busiest. But a layover spot isn't any game changer. Tell us how DFW changes the World like DC and San Francisco does. Remember when the gas pipeline in Houston got hacked and the repercussions were felt in the East Coast? Saw how the prices of goods shot up when the container ships were just circling the LA ports? Remember that thing called covid and the shots that were developed in Boston? These are real concrete factors that affect the country or in some cases the world.
There's a storm around DFW and a plain can't land? Oh well! There's just going to be delays or diverted flights. Annoying but not life changing.
The group has matured from its early days of a SF vs DC thread to a Houston vs Dallas thread.
SF and DC are both world changers. There were really good arguments for both. DFW doesn't have any real arguments that would put it ahead other than arguments based on size or location.
Thats true but there can only be so many #4's on the list... Sf and imo especially DC has a case and maybe even for 3rd place ahead of Chicago if we're factoring in future growth aswell
SF and DC could've easily been the number 4 cities due to the size of their metro areas but the reason why I never selected them is that while SF is 6 hours by car, and thus the preeminent city in NorCal, even over the bigger city San Jose, it's in the same state as LA (California), and LA is the biggest, flashiest, most famous city in CA even though SF is the most touristic city in that state and the most economically sound city of the two.
DC is the other major city and provides king to NYC's yang. But DC was just never selected by me because like SF, although DC is it's own jurisdiction, and the DC-Baltimore CSA is the fourth biggest, I believe behind NYC, LA, and Chicago, it's just close enough to be overshadowed by NYC. Miami is in it's own state, in it's own subregion (the Southeast) and in it's own region (the South).
Miami, although it's not the biggest city in FL (the biggest is Jacksonville), it's the seventh-largest CSA in the country and the largest CSA in FL, and out of all the Southern cities like Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, and Charlotte, the most dynamic and the most diverse, with one of the largest Jewish, Arab, Caribbean, and Italian population in the South, as well as Latin American. Miami-Dade County is the biggest county in the Southeast.
Overall, Miami is a unique city in a unique area of the country with unique demographics. Outside of Miami-Dade, the demographics are less Latino, and more black/white, especially in Broward County where there is a large Afro-Caribbean population in towns such as Plantation, Lauderhill, and Lauderdale Lakes. The only other city I would consider a strong number 4 other than Miami is Houston, but since the Latino population is similar to LA and Chicago and Miami is completely different in demographics, and while Houston city proper, the MSA and CSA is bigger than Miami's, I decided on Miami over Houston. Houston could be the number five city or Miami, vice versa depending on who you talk to, but for number four it's Miami.
Last edited by wanderer34; 04-18-2022 at 08:11 PM..
Meh this is simply on pure metro size however. Dallas' metro is like 11,000 sq miles.
I don't think going forward that whether it be 2030, or 2045 Dallas will be top 3 in relevance or importance to the nation. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I think the only contenders to "take any throne" away from Chicago in that regard are Washington DC or San Francisco. I really can't see it any other way. Dallas will challenge in pure size for #3 as a metro, but even still will be after Houston in not only city population, but just in general perception of it's national/international influence IMO.
Houston city proper is 660 square miles (equal to London but with only 40% the population). Dallas proper is HALF the square miles as Houston at about 328 miles. So per mile, density of the two is comparable. Its the metro area that is of greater relevance for comparison purposes.
That said, to respond to your comment that Houston is more important. Well
1. Both areas were basically the same size in 1980. Since then DFW has outgrown metro Houston and the lead has only widened.
2. While the energy sector is of great importance and Houston has the great Texas Medical Center, Houston's economy is notably less diverse and more cyclical due to fluctuating energy prices. DFW is home to Tx Instruments, Lockheed's fighter jet plant, Bell Helicopter, a Peterbilt truck plant, a GM Plant. Its one of the top three hubs for Amazon Fulfullment centers. Its Chase Bank , Verizon, Capital One and Bank of America's second biggest employment hubs. Its the regional hub for all Federal Bank regulators. Its one of the biggest HQs for restaurant and retail companies with Mckesson (7th largest company in America) Penneys', Neimans, Fossil, Dickies, Smoothie King, La Madeline, Michaels Stores, ATT, 7-11, Match.com, Hotels.com, DR Horton homes, American Airlines, Charles Schwab, Pizza Hut, Chuck E. Cheese, Dr. Pepper, Six Flags Theme Parks, the PGA, the PBA and Frito Lay. Oh and the Boy Scouts national HQ.
3. Houston benefits from having one of the largest seaports in the western Hemisphere. DFW benefits from having more rail traffic (BNSF Rail is HQed in Fort Worth) and far more air transit. DFW International alone regularly has more passengers than Houston Bush and Hobby, Austin Bergstrom and San Antiono combined. Dallas Love Field is home to Southwest Airlines. Then there's Alliance Airport in Fort Worth which is an air hub for UPS, Amazon and FedEx.
5. Because of its unique dual city growth, one essentially has two of everything - zoos, big arenas, public transit networks.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by walker1962
Houston city proper is 660 square miles (equal to London but with only 40% the population). Dallas proper is HALF the square miles as Houston at about 328 miles. So per mile, density of the two is comparable. Its the metro area that is of greater relevance for comparison purposes.
That said, to respond to your comment that Houston is more important. Well
1. Both areas were basically the same size in 1980. Since then DFW has outgrown metro Houston and the lead has only widened.
2. While the energy sector is of great importance and Houston has the great Texas Medical Center, Houston's economy is notably less diverse and more cyclical due to fluctuating energy prices. DFW is home to Tx Instruments, Lockheed's fighter jet plant, Bell Helicopter, a Peterbilt truck plant, a GM Plant. Its one of the top three hubs for Amazon Fulfullment centers. Its Chase Bank , Verizon, Capital One and Bank of America's second biggest employment hubs. Its the regional hub for all Federal Bank regulators. Its one of the biggest HQs for restaurant and retail companies with Mckesson (7th largest company in America) Penneys', Neimans, Fossil, Dickies, Smoothie King, La Madeline, Michaels Stores, ATT, 7-11, Match.com, Hotels.com, DR Horton homes, American Airlines, Charles Schwab, Pizza Hut, Chuck E. Cheese, Dr. Pepper, Six Flags Theme Parks, the PGA, the PBA and Frito Lay. Oh and the Boy Scouts national HQ.
3. Houston benefits from having one of the largest seaports in the western Hemisphere. DFW benefits from having more rail traffic (BNSF Rail is HQed in Fort Worth) and far more air transit. DFW International alone regularly has more passengers than Houston Bush and Hobby, Austin Bergstrom and San Antiono combined. Dallas Love Field is home to Southwest Airlines. Then there's Alliance Airport in Fort Worth which is an air hub for UPS, Amazon and FedEx.
5. Because of its unique dual city growth, one essentially has two of everything - zoos, big arenas, public transit networks.
This entire post basically summed up while Dallas could never be #3 or 4 in relevance IMO. You may have been trying to convey it the other way, but to me this post backfires on that point.
1. DFW is a great logistical location, but so is Chicago. Having a bunch of Amazon fulfillment centers doesn't make it more uniquely relevant. Naming a bunch of national HQ's that either moved there or started there is cool, but that's not elevating the city above cities that specialize in something relevant. Houston's economy per capita, if I'm not mistaken is still ahead of Dallas'.
2. Your point about international passengers into DFW means a lot less if that's just planes landing with people transferring and the origin-destination traffic is still less than Houston's.
3. Much like SF/SJ and DC-Baltimore get discredited for having another city sphere close to them, the same would apply based on your 5th point. Because if that's the case SF/SJ, and especially DC-Baltimore combined would out rank DFW on overall size, and amenity scale having at least 2 or more of everything. Which would mean (Dallas) couldn't jump into the top 5 at least the next 20 years. Dallas and Fort Worth grew into one another very rapidly to make this major metro it is today.
You sound like you know nothing about the DMV, which is strange given how you spend your waking hours of every day on this site boosting it.
C’mon man. You know (at least pre-pandemic times) to go from Baltimore to DC or vice versa during rush hour is a NIGHTMARE. And on off-peak hours, it’s AT LEAST 40 mins, unless there’s been some lane expansion in the last few years. When you add in realistic traffic it’s an hour during off-peak times.
As for MARC, I took it from the Dorsey Station to Union Station for a summer fellowship. That was about 10 years ago. It was 1 hour in the morning and longer than that in the evening. And that is CLOSER to DC than Baltimore. You would add on at least 20-30 mins if you are catching it in Baltimore. Have you actually retaken the MARC before? Do you know how slowly it creeps. It is not some high speed express train.
There is no sense of connectivity between Baltimore and DC. Nowhere near the feeling of cohesiveness that you feel in “The Bay Area.” To try to claim otherwise is plain silly.
Stop it with this foolishness…
by car, its really not that bad a drive. Depends on the time you leave. I drive from NW DC and PG County to DT Baltimore multiple times a month.
Like I say... working from home does not help a CSA.
DC/Baltimore is part of the most solid Megalopolis in the US. DC thru to Boston.
Chicago may not have Milwaukee in its CSA but for their suburbs/exurbs unite.... and more of Milwaukee too far... to think of commuting this day and age. Still a united metro and Chicago CSA does hit Milwaukee exurbs going into Wisconsin...
Look at any satellite view of light pollution WHAT DO YOU SEE. Chicago metro and Milwaukee metro are connected.
Well, you need not think of Houston and Dallas but more of TEXAS. THAT is a big, a top 20 global economy. There are a ton of consulates. There are a ton of Fortune 500 HQs, second only to California. There are a ton of foreign offices. The Port of Houston based on tonnage is top 5 in the western hemisphere. And Houston has the biggest medical complex in the world, the Texas Medical Center - 50 million sf. 106K employees which hosts many foreign patients.
The second busiest airport in the US was DFW last year and number of Foreign flagged airliners have direct flights to DFW. The largest airline in the world is in DFW, American, and the airline with the most domestic flights, Southwest is also based in DFW.
Houston, DFW, Chicago and Atlanta annual international passenger traffic was all within 20,000 passengers of each other. All were slightly more than San Francisco but much behind L.A. or NY. No airport serving D.C. was even close in international flights. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...enger-traffic/
DC-Baltimore region has 2 international airports akin to Tri-State that split the load instead of one giant and how many of those international flights at those airports are final destinations or just connections?
Reagan National serves as DC's regional airport as it has 1250 radius route limit so you can only fly international via BWI or IAD.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joakim3
DC-Baltimore region has 2 international airports akin to Tri-State that split the load instead of one giant and how many of those international flights at those airports are final destinations or just connections?
Reagan National serves as DC's regional airport as it has 1250 radius route limit so you can only fly international via BWI or IAD.
Dulles was prior to pandemic a top 10 international traffic airport. What that poster failed to mention was how much of the international traffic to those airports is actually O/D traffic vs people landing just to layover and take back off.
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