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Here's the thing. You're painting a beautiful picture of Dallas. Most people don't disagree with the picture you're painting. However, there's a beautiful picture to paint for literally every other city on this list. That's why there here in discussion to begin with.
If you think Seattle is nothing but Amazon and Microsoft, you're absolutely extremely wrong. I don't have the time and energy right now to make a glorious poem for Seattle, but it can easily be made.
I'm not sure if you have ever worked in the industry, but Seattle is often regarded for having the best software engineers in the world even ahead of San Jose. Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing and Cray Computers didn't happen spontaneously. There is a real setting that keeps Seattle the way it is. The IT industry is much larger and multi faced than people think.
All that said, I do agree with placing Dallas ahead of Seattle, but typing out a commercial real estate directory isn't what makes Dallas' case.
I worked for WaMu, based in Seattle. I pretty familiar with its CORE industries as some were customers. Seattle is just as tech heavy as Houston is Energy industry reliant. That's what I've said. Its economic base isn't as broad as DFW just as Houston's is not as broad. Yes it has a big Boeing plant and Costco is based there and it has a large shipping port but nonetheless, its dominated by one industry and two behemoths there. Amazon occupies like 13 or 15 millions sf of office space. You can't find another single employer in any city/metro area with that kind of footprint, not in SJ, NYC or Austin (where Apple has two big campuses).
And as far and "typing out a CRE directory", if you were one who worked in R/E or Finance, you wouldn't say that because you'd know such is a key metric of the concentration or diversity of one's MSA economy.
DC's metro is not even in the top 5 in population. Yet is in the top 5 in economy. So what does that say about DC?
You have yet to answer any relevant questions in this thread, so by this point yes it's trolling. You still have not explained what activities take place in the city proper of San Francisco, that are of such great relevance or importance to the country that makes it one of the top 4 cities. You haven't, and neither has anyone else. This has become redundant at this point.
What institutions are based there in San Francisco proper that impact the globe or nation more than the US Congress, the US Supreme Court, the POTUS, the Department of Homeland Security, the Treasury Department, the Department of Defense, the International Monetary Fund, the AFL-CIO, World Bank, and the 100's of the most influential think tanks in the world.
What NGO's in SF are of great importance? What's the equivalent non profit organizations are there that impact our nations like the Human Rights Campaign, or Planned Parenthood?
San Francisco has 42 diplomatic missions, Washington has 177. SF doesn't even come to mind from people in DC, here people think of LA and look up to them more than anything. LA/NYC are the two cities that Washington even looks at like it's a step up, and maybe in the city itself Chicago, but that's about it. The others that are close are viewed no more than at least equals.
All I've seen from you is macro metro economic stats and incorrect international air traffic posts.
I agree with your support of DC's importance but to say folks in Washington think more about L.A. than SF, from a core economic development perspective, I find VERY hard to believe. I'd bet from government contractor perspective, businesses from the Bay get more work or higher value work than those in greater L.A.
That's even worse for your argument because the DC Metro is about 1.8% of the US Population and Metro Canberra is about 1.7% of the Australian Population.
DC=Canberra.
People want to focus on the scale of the countries but that's not even the point. The point is the cities themselves in relation to their respective countries.
IMO top 20 percent (#8 of 41) vs. top 45 percent (#8 of 19) is indeed a significant difference. Top 45 percent in the US gets you somewhere around the level of my native Kansas City, and Washington certainly stands head and shoulders above that UZA. Scale, or size of the pool, does matter.
For years now, certainly going back at least a decade, there's a solid consensus among interested, informed parties that the #4 and #5 cities here are interchangeably DC and SF. That isn't likely to change any time soon; as stated, both cities have been closing ground on Chicago for awhile, and even assuming they imminently leap Chicago, nowhere else at this point of time is close to catching Chicago...
The argument for DC and SF is completely preferential. I have DC over SF because I think being the internationally-renown capital of the most diverse and politically influential nation on the planet is a unique hallmark that stands alone, but that's my preference. I can make an argument for SF too and have no issues with someone who puts SF over DC..
They are virtually tied with each other but round out America's Big 5 regardless. The real debate is the order of 6 thru 10...
Why are talking about Sydney and Melbourne? That's totally irrelevant to the US and has nothing to do with the analogy and just plain odd.
Washington DC has a bigger GDP than Sydney and Melbourne, but it's ONLY 5th in the US and that's the point. DCs GDP is smaller than San Francisco, not to mention Chicago, LA and NYC, just like Canberra's GDP is smaller than Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth.
No need to get our panties in a bunch over data, these are numbers. DC is a big fish in a big pond that is full of other big fish, and 4 of them are bigger than DC. #JawsBytheBay
You brought up GDP, so yeah.
For context, Ottawa is 6th in GDP in Canada, D.C. is that much of a bigger deal in the U.S. than Ottawa is in Canada.
Just because DFW is a good place for a layover doesn't mean it is important. It's probably the closest top 20 metro to the US center of population so I would think it's airport would be the busiest. But a layover spot isn't any game changer. Tell us how DFW changes the World like DC and San Francisco does. Remember when the gas pipeline in Houston got hacked and the repercussions were felt in the East Coast? Saw how the prices of goods shot up when the container ships were just circling the LA ports? Remember that thing called covid and the shots that were developed in Boston? These are real concrete factors that affect the country or in some cases the world.
There's a storm around DFW and a plain can't land? Oh well! There's just going to be delays or diverted flights. Annoying but not life changing.
Facts. I'm not sure how anyone could argue that DFW is that much more important than its main peer and that is Atlanta. They are both logistics and business hubs for their regions of the country due to their locations. They have busy airports not because they are driving that traffic themselves, but because they are well-located to connect various areas of the country. Traditionally Atlanta and Chicago have been those hubs, but as the nation's population has moved westward and southward DFW and Denver have taken a bigger chunk of the connecting traffic. Cool. But had it not been Atlanta, it probably would have been Birmingham (famous story about that). If it wasn't Dallas, it would have been OKC or another Midwest city that eventually became something like what DFW is today. Because the demand exists/existed and DFW filled it. DFW grew a lot because it has long had regional leaders that really wanted to grow more than any of those other places. That's also true of Houston, to an extent - there was always going to be a huge seaport somewhere on the Gulf Coast and it could have conceivably been a lot of places, but Houston's city fathers saw the vision of what a dredged Buffalo Bayou could be.
So does being a regional logistics/business make places like DFW and Atlanta nationally important? Yes. Does that make them more important than areas of the country that actually specialize in critical industries that this country requires to function? Absolutely not. And while size/economics should be an aspect of who #4 should be, that's certainly not the end-all, be-all of importance - in my opinion other factors like criticality to the nation, national/international profile, cultural legacy, etc. should also play a role in that.
The contenders for the #4 city/region/metro (regardless of what we're looking at) have to be Houston, DC, and the Bay Area - THE national hubs for energy (critical), gov't (critical), and tech (critical in today's world) while also being top ten metros. We can quibble about size and economic strength a million different ways but a big destructive hurricane in Houston or DC or the Big One hitting SF will have national implications that normal people will feel. You could even make that argument for Seattle. A big disaster in DFW or Atlanta, not so much.
I could see #4 being any of those three, but the rest of them, I just don't see it here.
That's even worse for your argument because the DC Metro is about 1.8% of the US Population and Metro Canberra is about 1.7% of the Australian Population.
DC=Canberra.
People want to focus on the scale of the countries but that's not even the point. The point is the cities themselves in relation to their respective countries.
The fact that D.C. being more prominent than Canberra is disputed enough to occupy several pages of this thread says it all.
D.C. is known around the world consistent with the U.S. governments disproportionate influence around the world relative to other countries.
For most of the world, its the few recognizable buildings that symbolize the U.S. government, and clips from WH press briefings, and that's about it.
Unless, of course, someone would like to argue that there are cultural quirks, cuisines, etc. that people all around the world associate with D.C.
The fact that D.C. being more prominent than Canberra is disputed enough to occupy several pages of this thread says it all.
That's because we are disputing different things.
1. I say Canberra is the US what DC is to the US
2. Resident09 says that DC has a larger GDP than Sydney, which has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
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D.C. is known around the world consistent with the U.S. governments disproportionate influence around the world relative to other countries.
Just as Canberra is known all over the world as the capital of Australia.
People think that the US being so much bigger changes DC's role in the US vs Canberra role in Australia--there is no difference.
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For most of the world, its the few recognizable buildings that symbolize the U.S. government, and clips from WH press briefings, and that's about it.
This has nothing to do with what I said. It doesnt matter what is recognizable for most of the world, we're talking about DCs role in America and Canberra's role in Australia. They are largely the same, DC is larger, but that's because the US is larger.
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Unless, of course, someone would like to argue that there are cultural quirks, cuisines, etc. that people all around the world associate with D.C.
DC's metro is not even in the top 5 in population. Yet is in the top 5 in economy. So what does that say about DC?
You have yet to answer any relevant questions in this thread, so by this point yes it's trolling. You still have not explained what activities take place in the city proper of San Francisco, that are of such great relevance or importance to the country that makes it one of the top 4 cities. You haven't, and neither has anyone else. This has become redundant at this point.
What institutions are based there in San Francisco proper that impact the globe or nation more than the US Congress, the US Supreme Court, the POTUS, the Department of Homeland Security, the Treasury Department, the Department of Defense, the International Monetary Fund, the AFL-CIO, World Bank, and the 100's of the most influential think tanks in the world.
What NGO's in SF are of great importance? What's the equivalent non profit organizations are there that impact our nations like the Human Rights Campaign, or Planned Parenthood?
San Francisco has 42 diplomatic missions, Washington has 177. SF doesn't even come to mind from people in DC, here people think of LA and look up to them more than anything. LA/NYC are the two cities that Washington even looks at like it's a step up, and maybe in the city itself Chicago, but that's about it. The others that are close are viewed no more than at least equals.
All I've seen from you is macro metro economic stats and incorrect international air traffic posts.
Resident you have a point, and I've seen this same argument brought up countless times before, that being said why the hell would NYC get a pass? Wouldn't that propel DC to #1? Shouldn't this discussion be about Chicago vs SF for the #4 spot? My point being is that it's either #1 or it falls to #5 using this criteria, if you or others are willing to give NYC the first spot then you can't use that same argument against SF or any other city.
What institutions are based there in San Francisco proper that impact the globe or nation more than the US Congress, the US Supreme Court, the POTUS, the Department of Homeland Security, the Treasury Department, the Department of Defense
This is the federal goverment, it's all 1 entity.
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the International Monetary Fund, the AFL-CIO, World Bank, and the 100's of the most influential think tanks in the world.
More public policy(i.e. govt related) stuff. Yawns.
People keep saying there's so much more to DC than govt every last thing resident09 brags about is tied back to the govt.
Which fine, but that's Canberra.
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