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If we look at statewide culture, beyond comparing particular cities, there's no question in my mind that California, Colorado, Washington and Oregon together represent a techie/cannabis/brewery/outdoorsy new world. They are politically very similar as well. Midwest is a different culture, though that doesn't mean there are no similarities as well.
Really now. Seattle and grunge shines over New York and LA hip-hop? New Orleans and Cash Money/No Limit? That's a good one. Seattle has almost no cultural impact on the country.
Spin Magazine Quote from 1992: "Seattle currently is to rock n' roll what Bethlehem was to Christianity"
Seattle and LA were the two most dominant US cities in early 90s pop culture. The fact that an isolated, mid-sized city achieved that feat is crazy. But make no mistake, it happened. Jay Z is quoted as saying they would have to wait for the Seattle Grunge thing to subside for hip-hop to fully take over.
Just check out a clip from this New York Times feature article from 1992 about Seattle and Grunge- it hits on the cultural impact not just on music, but on pop culture in general including fashion
"From subculture to mass culture, the trend time line gets shorter and faster all the time. It was just over a year ago that MTV began barraging its viewers with the sounds of Seattle "grunge rock," featuring the angst anthems and grinding guitars of bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam. By last summer, the glossy magazines began tracking grunge looks, the threadbare flannel shirts, knobby wool sweaters and cracked leatherette coats of the Pacific Northwest's thrift-shop esthetic. Hollywood weighed in, too, with a Seattle-based grunge-scene movie, "Singles." Then two weeks ago -- all in the blink of a flashbulb -- the fashion designer Marc Jacobs, who has never even been to Seattle, was hailed as "the guru of grunge." https://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/15/s...ess-story.html
The article even has a Seattle Grunge "slang glossary" that it says "will be coming to a mall near you". The hilarious part is some staffer at Sub-Pop just completely made it all up.
That tangent aside - the point is Seattle was the "it" city of the early 90s in terms of cultural impact. George from Seinfeld referred to Seattle as "the pesto of cities" (meaning it's the trendy city). Fashion designers were putting together a "Seattle Grunge" look. (See Marc Jacobs). And this was during the last gasp of the monoculture, before the internet emerged, so when a trend took hold, it really took hold.
And then you combine Grunge with Starbucks exploding, Microsoft taking over, movies like "Sleepless in Seattle" and "Singles", heck the decade even ended with the Seattle WTO Protests ("Battle in Seattle") planting a very strong cultural flag.
I say this as someone who had never been to Seattle until 2005. I grew up in North Carolina, California and Arizona and honestly I saw Seattle as one big pop culture cliche until I moved here and realized it had a lot more depth and dimension.
But the point is this - Seattle has had a stronger cultural impact than Denver. For that matter, so has Minneapolis (not quite at the same level as Seattle, but more than Denver). I'd argue that Seattle - an isolated mid-sized city tucked away in the corner of the least populated quadrant of the US - punches above its weight in terms of pop culture impact over the last 30-40 years more than any other American city.
Last edited by Vincent_Adultman; 06-19-2023 at 01:36 AM..
I don't see what Seattle is culturally influencing today. The Minneapolis sound basically helped shape the 80s sound in pop music. I don't see what makes grunge so influential. Especially over hip hop.
I don't see what Seattle is culturally influencing today. The Minneapolis sound basically helped shape the 80s sound in pop music. I don't see what makes grunge so influential. Especially over hip hop.
I don't think Seattle has a lot of music influence today. It has its share but it's not superlative. Its influence is about the past for the most part. It's not a filming center, despite the successes of the 90s, due to a lack of subsidies. But it's the setting for a lot of movies and shows. Sometimes they want the city's "brand." Other times it's because they film in Vancouver and we look similar. Cultural influence today would be as a tech HQ/engineering center most of all. It's unsurpassed in desktop software, cloud tech, and online retail (and real estate + travel), and not far off in other areas like VR and gaming. Depending how you define "cultural influence" you could argue global health and disease research (Gates Foundation, Fred Hutch, UW).
Denver has an innovation culture and cultural influence, but it's probably on a Portland/SD/MSP level (still pretty good), not a Seattle level. I don't see a lot of superlatives. Being near mountains, John Denver, an incrementally larger pot image, the typical microbrew thing, a useful draft-pick donor...
I don't see what Seattle is culturally influencing today. The Minneapolis sound basically helped shape the 80s sound in pop music. I don't see what makes grunge so influential. Especially over hip hop.
Grunge was hugely influential at the time... and so was Prince, but it doesn't matter because these associations are temporary and generational. When you think of New York do you consider Andy Warhol, Nico and the VU?, if you're under 40...probably not.
In my view corporate culture and artistic origins don't really shape a city's "long term" identity. Starbucks or Amazon could move their headquarters. Cobian, Prince and Lou Reed are all dead. The Lakers play for L.A and the North Stars play for f@#king Texas.
But 100 years from now people will still remember that Minneapolis has Scandinavian roots.
Last edited by Good Red Road; 06-19-2023 at 01:26 PM..
I think it feels more like a Texan/SW city than anything. Like I’d compare it to cities like Dallas and Phoenix before I’d compare it to SD, Portland or Seattle. But to be more specific I’d say it’s a mix of Minneapolis (socially) and Santa Fe (culturally) that attracts similar type of transplants as Dallas. So I guess I’m leaning towards it being more comparable to midwestern cities.
Never been to Denver but I've been told Salt Lake is basically a smaller version of Denver. I've seen that Boise is basically a smaller Salt Lake...
So by that measure Denver has to feel like what it is, an Interior Western city. Boise and Salt Lake don't feel like the West "Coast", but they are distinctly western...
Again if Boise is a smaller Salt Lake and Salt Lake is a smaller Denver.........................
I'm typing this from downtown Salt Lake City. The I-15 and I-25 corridors look incredibly similar. But the culture here reminds me alot more of a larger Colorado Springs rather than a smaller Denver. Lots of religion and American flags. Many suburban areas are pretty indistinguishable from front range suburban areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_Adultman
Spin Magazine Quote from 1992: "Seattle currently is to rock n' roll what Bethlehem was to Christianity"
Seattle and LA were the two most dominant US cities in early 90s pop culture. The fact that an isolated, mid-sized city achieved that feat is crazy. But make no mistake, it happened. Jay Z is quoted as saying they would have to wait for the Seattle Grunge thing to subside for hip-hop to fully take over.
Just check out a clip from this New York Times feature article from 1992 about Seattle and Grunge- it hits on the cultural impact not just on music, but on pop culture in general including fashion
"From subculture to mass culture, the trend time line gets shorter and faster all the time. It was just over a year ago that MTV began barraging its viewers with the sounds of Seattle "grunge rock," featuring the angst anthems and grinding guitars of bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam. By last summer, the glossy magazines began tracking grunge looks, the threadbare flannel shirts, knobby wool sweaters and cracked leatherette coats of the Pacific Northwest's thrift-shop esthetic. Hollywood weighed in, too, with a Seattle-based grunge-scene movie, "Singles." Then two weeks ago -- all in the blink of a flashbulb -- the fashion designer Marc Jacobs, who has never even been to Seattle, was hailed as "the guru of grunge." https://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/15/s...ess-story.html
The article even has a Seattle Grunge "slang glossary" that it says "will be coming to a mall near you". The hilarious part is some staffer at Sub-Pop just completely made it all up.
That tangent aside - the point is Seattle was the "it" city of the early 90s in terms of cultural impact. George from Seinfeld referred to Seattle as "the pesto of cities" (meaning it's the trendy city). Fashion designers were putting together a "Seattle Grunge" look. (See Marc Jacobs). And this was during the last gasp of the monoculture, before the internet emerged, so when a trend took hold, it really took hold.
And then you combine Grunge with Starbucks exploding, Microsoft taking over, movies like "Sleepless in Seattle" and "Singles", heck the decade even ended with the Seattle WTO Protests ("Battle in Seattle") planting a very strong cultural flag.
I say this as someone who had never been to Seattle until 2005. I grew up in North Carolina, California and Arizona and honestly I saw Seattle as one big pop culture cliche until I moved here and realized it had a lot more depth and dimension.
But the point is this - Seattle has had a stronger cultural impact than Denver. For that matter, so has Minneapolis (not quite at the same level as Seattle, but more than Denver). I'd argue that Seattle - an isolated mid-sized city tucked away in the corner of the least populated quadrant of the US - punches above its weight in terms of pop culture impact over the last 30-40 years more than any other American city.
It's not really crazy that it achieved that. New Orleans was one of the popular 90s cities in the hip-hop genre and world famous for Jazz.
Seattle doesn't have this impact on me, I grew up around older black people in the south so rock and roll was never in rotation. I've also never seen Sleepless in Seattle nor do I even know what the subject of the film is. I went in 2016, didn't see its cultural impact before I went and don't really see anything significant to this day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnubisMoon
I think it feels more like a Texan/SW city than anything. Like I’d compare it to cities like Dallas and Phoenix before I’d compare it to SD, Portland or Seattle. But to be more specific I’d say it’s a mix of Minneapolis (socially) and Santa Fe (culturally) that attracts similar type of transplants as Dallas. So I guess I’m leaning towards it being more comparable to midwestern cities.
Sante Fe seems like a wierd choice. A hyper specialized tourist town is culturally like Denver? What separates Minneapolis and the west coast cities, socially? And no, Denver attracts the same type of transplants that go to Seattle, Portland, San Diego. Nowhere near the types that move to Dallas. Those types move to Colorado Springs.
I think Dallas + Minneapolis + Seattle = Denver is a fine argument.
I think Dallas + Minneapolis + Seattle = Denver is a fine argument.
I can get behind that as well.
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