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"See My Blog Entries for my Top 500 Most Important USA Cities"
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If you had to rank the four "peer" cities - Toledo, Fort Wayne, Lansing, and Wichita by overall influence (socioeconomic, political, cultural, logistic, historical), what order would you choose (starting with the most influential first)?
You can weight the above-mentioned factors however you prefer, but I personally tend to consider economic and political factors the most important.
I will let you the voters decide which definition to use for defining "city" in this comparison/context. I suggest urban area or metropolitan statistical area (MSA). But you can use city proper or combined statistical area (CSA) if you prefer.
Toledo, Ohio - Part of the Great Lakes Megalopolis Region. An industrial city with a storied history. Hub of the glass industry, "the Glass Capital of the World". The Toledo War of 1836-1837 (no one was killed) was fought to determine if Michigan or Ohio owned a swath of disputed territory, including Toledo. By an act of Congress, Ohio was awarded Toledo, while Michigan received the Upper Peninsula. After the 1845 completion of the Miami and Erie Canal, Toledo grew quickly; it also benefited from its position on the railway line between New York City and Chicago. The City of Toledo straddles the Maumee River at its mouth at the southern end of Maumee Bay, the westernmost inlet of Lake Erie. Major interstates I-90 and I-75 service the city. The city is located north of what had been the Great Black Swamp, giving rise to another nickname, Frog Town. Toledo has one of the most productive Ports on the Great Lakes/St. Lawrence Seaway, and is a designated as a Foreign Trade Zone area. The Port of Toledo handles coal, ore, general cargo, and ship repairs, as well as having storage for over 22 million bushels of grain for export. It is the 54th busiest port by tonnage in the USA. Perhaps the "biggest city" feel of the four cities in this poll based on its older age, large urban grid, and downtown structure (the Toledo skyline has some 400+ foot high-rises downtown). There apparently were big plans for Toledo back in the day. Home of Dana, Inc. one of the largest auto parts suppliers in the world. Many other auto parts suppliers have manufacturing operations in Toledo. For more than 100 years, the Toledo Region has served as a major location for development and production in the automotive industry. Its niche in automotive evolved from the bicycle industry, where Toledo grew into one of the biggest manufacturing locations in the country. Headquarters of Owens Corning, $10-billion-market-cap insulation and roofing products manufacturer. Also home to The Andersons, a large publicly-traded grain, fertilizer, ethanol supplier and rail car operator. Johnson Controls has a large battery and parts manufacturing presence in Toledo. Home of the now-defunct Libbey Glass. Toledo is definitely the #4, #5, -or- (perhaps) #6 in its state (along with Dayton, and [maybe] Akron?). Home of the University of Toledo, with an enrollment of over 17k. In 2018, Cleveland-Cliffs, Inc. invested $700 million into an East Toledo location as the site of a new hot-briquetted iron plant. Located within 250 miles of 7 major (2-million-plus) metro areas. Toledo Zoo & Aquarium houses 10,000 animals in 51 acres. Toledo is home to a range of classical performing arts institutions, including The Toledo Opera, The Toledo Symphony Orchestra, the Toledo Jazz Orchestra and the Toledo Ballet. Art Tatum, considered one the greatest jazz pianists of all time was from Toledo. Toledo is still a major industrial city today. I wanted to include Dayton in this poll, but opted instead for four Midwestern cities from four different states. 644k MSA in 2021 (-0.37% 2020-2021). MSA shrank -0.74% from 2010-2020 from 651k to 647k. 2010 urban area population 508k. City proper 271k, 80.49 sq mi.
Fort Wayne, Indiana - Developed at the confluence of the St. Joseph, St. Marys, and Maumee rivers as a trading post for pioneers. Had a long and significant history with the Native Americans, British, and French. A big manufacturing hub (steel, auto, rubber, defense, textile), as well as a distribution, transportation and logistics hub. Indiana's second largest city (South Bend-Elkhart would be slightly larger [if combined], but I am not sure what the Indiana folk would say is more influential within their state: FW, or SB-Elk?). Fort Wayne is the headquarters of Steel Dynamics, a $15 billion large steel manufacturer and metal recycler. Fort Wayne has grown as a city proper by annexing surrounding townships. Low cost of living. All-American city. Home of Fort Wayne Children's Zoo, a 1,000-animal located on 40 acres and continuously ranks among the top zoos in the U.S. Fort Wayne Philharmonic Orchestra is a major regional symphony which has won five awards for adventuresome programming from ASCAP (American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers). Colloquially known as "the Fort". Home of large apparel manufacturer Vera Bradley. Famous actress Carole Lombard from the "Golden Era" of Hollywood was born in Fort Wayne. Fort Wayne has the largest Burmese American population in the U.S., estimated at 6,000. Fort Wayne is headquarters and main operations hub of Norfolk Southern's Triple Crown Services subsidiary, the largest truckload shipper in the U.S. Fastest growing of the four cities in this poll due to its low COL. City has dealt with numerous floods in its history. 423k MSA in 2021 (+0.82% from 2020-2021). MSA grew a steady 7.97% from 2010-2020 from 389k to 420k. 2010 urban area population 313k. City proper 264k, 110.57 sq mi.
Lansing, Michigan - The state capital / political focal point of Michigan (a state of roughly ~10 million population). Home to Michigan State University (a major nationally-recognized public research institution with 50,000+ postgraduate and graduate students, Big Ten sports, one of largest public endowments, 650,000+ alumni, ranked in the Top 50-100 best colleges/universities nationally). Oldsmobile (now defunct) was founded here in 1897, and Lansing is considered the birthplace of the commercial automobile in the USA. Oldsmobile produced over 35 million vehicles, including over 14 million built at its Lansing, Michigan factory alone. Still a big automotive and automotive parts hub today. Has a robust public transportation system. Lansing Community College has 19k students. The Grand River, the largest river in Michigan, flows through downtown Lansing. Lake Lansing is approximately 500 acres (2.0 sq. km) in size and is a summer favorite for swimmers, boaters, and fishermen. The overall area of Lansing is colloquially referred to as "Mid-Michigan". Home of of Auto-Owners Insurance, a mutual insurance company, and currently the 16th largest auto insurance company in the USA. Home of Jackson Financial ($3-billion-market-cap company) and well as a few other national insurance/annuity financial companies and banks. Home of Dart Container Corporation (private) the world's largest manufacturer of foam cups and containers, producing the red Solo Cup brand. Renowned for its parks and recreation. Home of Potter Park Zoo with 350 animals on 102 acres. Definitive #3 city in its state behind Detroit and Grand Rapids. 540k MSA in 2021 (-0.19% from 2020-2021). MSA grew 1.24% from 2010-2020 from 535k to 541k. 2010 urban area population 314k. City proper 113k, 39.19 sq mi.
Wichita, Kansas - perhaps the most "recognizable" by name of the four cities in the poll (most pop culture references?). Headquarters of Koch Industries, a mega conglomerate worth an estimated ~$140 billion+, and the single largest privately-owned company in the USA (owned and controlled by Charles Koch and the Koch family). Known as the "Air Capital of the World", Wichita is a big aircraft/aviation assembly manufacturing hub for commerical, private and military jets - Boeing/Spirit AeroSystems, Airbus, Bombardier/Learjet, Textron Aviation/Cessna, GE Aviation have major operations in Wichita today. Home of Wichita State University, with over 16k students. Home of McConnell Air Force Base with over 2,900 military personnel and approximately 500 civilian employees, McConnell's primary mission is to provide global reach by conducting air refueling and airlift where and when needed. The city of Wichita is named after the Wichita tribe, who settled on the site of the present-day city along the banks of the Arkansas River during the U.S. Civil War to avoid conflict with pro-Southern tribes in Oklahoma. Wichita was a railroad terminal and a destination for cattle drives from Texas. The town would fill with drunken, armed cowboys celebrating the end of their long journey when the cattle drives arrived, and lawmen were kept busy. The legendary Wyatt Earp lived in Wichita from 1874-1876, served as sheriff, and along with his wife also ran a brothel before going to Dodge City, KS and later Deadwood, SD. In the 1920s and 1930s, businessmen and aeronautical engineers established aircraft manufacturing companies in Wichita. Wichita is the birthplace of Pizza Hut and White Castle fast-food chains. Has Sedgwick County Zoo, the 7th largest zoo in America with 3,000 animals, 400 species, and 247 acres. Home of Intrust Bank, a private $5 billion bank. Wichita has a decent-sized commercial airport (small hub). 648k MSA in 2021 (+0.05% from 2020-2021) 2010 urban area population 473k. City proper 398k, 161.99 sq mi. MSA grew 3.94% from 2010-2020 from 623k to 648k.
Please feel free to add more details as you see fit. These are merely "30,000-descriptions" of each city.
I could have included *MANY* other midsize Midwestern peer cities in this poll. However, the poll options would then have grown exponentially.
I wanted to include Des Moines and/or Madison, but I figured they would both probably win (pretty?) easily, but not 100% sure. I also wanted to include Dayton and Akron, but I figured the poll should reflect cities from all different states. Other considerations: Youngstown, Ann Arbor, Flint, Kalamazoo, Saginaw, South Bend, Evansville, Bloomington IN, Peoria, Springfield IL, Rockford, Champaign, Bloomington IL, Green Bay, Appleton, Davenport, Cedar Rapids, Springfield MO, Columbia MO, Lincoln NE, Sioux Falls, Fargo.
I will probably do another poll comparing some of these cities later.
Interesting question. Lansing might be the highest out of these? It's a state capital and (basically) home to Michigan State U, a large and well-known national university.
Toledo and Wichita are places I think non-Midwesterners would have at least heard of, not sure if that's true of Fort Wayne. Probably Wichita's regional influence is higher just because Ohio has so many cities already, so there's not a large area of the state for it to influence or be "the big city" for. Even the county immediately north of Toledo, touching its city limits, is in Detroit's CSA. So Lansing > Wichita > Toledo > Fort Wayne maybe?
1) Toledo - most historically significant in several contexts and I see its proximity to other population centers as an asset, not a detriment (My Ohio bias is likely kicking in though).
2) Lansing - could make a good case for #1 as a state capital with its name recognition but its city proper is the smallest by a wide margin and I feel like it leaves a bit to be desired.
3) Wichita - could also make a case for #1 (or at least #2) as it seems to be the greatest regional hub of the 4 cities. I guess it loses points for me because I perceive it as "punching below its weight".
4) Fort Wayne - seems like a clear cut #4 to me. As a native midwesterner I can't really tell you anything about it.
If you had to rank the four "peer" cities - Toledo, Fort Wayne, Lansing, and Wichita by overall influence (socioeconomic, political, cultural, logistic, historical), what order would you choose (starting with the most influential first)?
You can weight the above-mentioned factors however you prefer, but I personally tend to consider economic and political factors the most important.
I will let you the voters decide which definition to use for defining "city" in this comparison/context. I suggest urban area or metropolitan statistical area (MSA). But you can use city proper or combined statistical area (CSA) if you prefer.
Toledo, Ohio - Part of the Great Lakes Megalopolis Region. An industrial city with a storied history. Hub of the glass industry, "the Glass Capital of the World". The Toledo War of 1836-1837 (no one was killed) was fought to determine if Michigan or Ohio owned a swath of disputed territory, including Toledo. By an act of Congress, Ohio was awarded Toledo, while Michigan received the Upper Peninsula. After the 1845 completion of the Miami and Erie Canal, Toledo grew quickly; it also benefited from its position on the railway line between New York City and Chicago. The City of Toledo straddles the Maumee River at its mouth at the southern end of Maumee Bay, the westernmost inlet of Lake Erie. Major interstates I-90 and I-75 service the city. The city is located north of what had been the Great Black Swamp, giving rise to another nickname, Frog Town. Toledo has one of the most productive Ports on the Great Lakes/St. Lawrence Seaway, and is a designated as a Foreign Trade Zone area. The Port of Toledo handles coal, ore, general cargo, and ship repairs, as well as having storage for over 22 million bushels of grain for export. It is the 54th busiest port by tonnage in the USA. Perhaps the "biggest city" feel of the four cities in this poll based on its older age, large urban grid, and downtown structure (the Toledo skyline has some 400+ foot high-rises downtown). There apparently were big plans for Toledo back in the day. Home of Dana, Inc. one of the largest auto parts suppliers in the world. Many other auto parts suppliers have manufacturing operations in Toledo. For more than 100 years, the Toledo Region has served as a major location for development and production in the automotive industry. Its niche in automotive evolved from the bicycle industry, where Toledo grew into one of the biggest manufacturing locations in the country. Headquarters of Owens Corning, $10-billion-market-cap insulation and roofing products manufacturer. Also home to The Andersons, a large publicly-traded grain, fertilizer, ethanol supplier and rail car operator. Johnson Controls has a large battery and parts manufacturing presence in Toledo. Home of the now-defunct Libbey Glass. Toledo is definitely the #4, #5, -or- (perhaps) #6 in its state (along with Dayton, and [maybe] Akron?). Home of the University of Toledo, with an enrollment of over 17k. In 2018, Cleveland-Cliffs, Inc. invested $700 million into an East Toledo location as the site of a new hot-briquetted iron plant. Located within 250 miles of 7 major (2-million-plus) metro areas. Toledo Zoo & Aquarium houses 10,000 animals in 51 acres. Toledo is home to a range of classical performing arts institutions, including The Toledo Opera, The Toledo Symphony Orchestra, the Toledo Jazz Orchestra and the Toledo Ballet. Art Tatum, considered one the greatest jazz pianists of all time was from Toledo. Toledo is still a major industrial city today. I wanted to include Dayton in this poll, but opted instead for four Midwestern cities from four different states. 644k MSA in 2021 (-0.37% 2020-2021). MSA shrank -0.74% from 2010-2020 from 651k to 647k. 2010 urban area population 508k. City proper 271k, 80.49 sq mi.
Fort Wayne, Indiana - Developed at the confluence of the St. Joseph, St. Marys, and Maumee rivers as a trading post for pioneers. Had a long and significant history with the Native Americans, British, and French. A big manufacturing hub (steel, auto, rubber, defense, textile), as well as a distribution, transportation and logistics hub. Indiana's second largest city (South Bend-Elkhart would be slightly larger [if combined], but I am not sure what the Indiana folk would say is more influential within their state: FW, or SB-Elk?). Fort Wayne is the headquarters of Steel Dynamics, a $15 billion large steel manufacturer and metal recycler. Fort Wayne has grown as a city proper by annexing surrounding townships. Low cost of living. All-American city. Home of Fort Wayne Children's Zoo, a 1,000-animal located on 40 acres and continuously ranks among the top zoos in the U.S. Fort Wayne Philharmonic Orchestra is a major regional symphony which has won five awards for adventuresome programming from ASCAP (American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers). Colloquially known as "the Fort". Home of large apparel manufacturer Vera Bradley. Famous actress Carole Lombard from the "Golden Era" of Hollywood was born in Fort Wayne. Fort Wayne has the largest Burmese American population in the U.S., estimated at 6,000. Fort Wayne is headquarters and main operations hub of Norfolk Southern's Triple Crown Services subsidiary, the largest truckload shipper in the U.S. Fastest growing of the four cities in this poll due to its low COL. City has dealt with numerous floods in its history. 423k MSA in 2021 (+0.82% from 2020-2021). MSA grew a steady 7.97% from 2010-2020 from 389k to 420k. 2010 urban area population 313k. City proper 264k, 110.57 sq mi.
Lansing, Michigan - The state capital / political focal point of Michigan (a state of roughly ~10 million population). Home to Michigan State University (a major nationally-recognized public research institution with 50,000+ postgraduate and graduate students, Big Ten sports, one of largest public endowments, 650,000+ alumni, ranked in the Top 50-100 best colleges/universities nationally). Oldsmobile (now defunct) was founded here in 1897, and Lansing is considered the birthplace of the commercial automobile in the USA. Oldsmobile produced over 35 million vehicles, including over 14 million built at its Lansing, Michigan factory alone. Still a big automotive and automotive parts hub today. Has a robust public transportation system. Lansing Community College has 19k students. The Grand River, the largest river in Michigan, flows through downtown Lansing. Lake Lansing is approximately 500 acres (2.0 sq. km) in size and is a summer favorite for swimmers, boaters, and fishermen. The overall area of Lansing is colloquially referred to as "Mid-Michigan". Home of of Auto-Owners Insurance, a mutual insurance company, and currently the 16th largest auto insurance company in the USA. Home of Jackson Financial ($3-billion-market-cap company) and well as a few other national insurance/annuity financial companies and banks. Home of Dart Container Corporation (private) the world's largest manufacturer of foam cups and containers, producing the red Solo Cup brand. Renowned for its parks and recreation. Home of Potter Park Zoo with 350 animals on 102 acres. Definitive #3 city in its state behind Detroit and Grand Rapids. 540k MSA in 2021 (-0.19% from 2020-2021). MSA grew 1.24% from 2010-2020 from 535k to 541k. 2010 urban area population 314k. City proper 113k, 39.19 sq mi.
Wichita, Kansas - perhaps the most "recognizable" by name of the four cities in the poll (most pop culture references?). Headquarters of Koch Industries, a mega conglomerate worth an estimated ~$140 billion+, and the single largest privately-owned company in the USA (owned and controlled by Charles Koch and the Koch family). Known as the "Air Capital of the World", Wichita is a big aircraft/aviation assembly manufacturing hub for commerical, private and military jets - Boeing/Spirit AeroSystems, Airbus, Bombardier/Learjet, Textron Aviation/Cessna, GE Aviation have major operations in Wichita today. Home of Wichita State University, with over 16k students. Home of McConnell Air Force Base with over 2,900 military personnel and approximately 500 civilian employees, McConnell's primary mission is to provide global reach by conducting air refueling and airlift where and when needed. The city of Wichita is named after the Wichita tribe, who settled on the site of the present-day city along the banks of the Arkansas River during the U.S. Civil War to avoid conflict with pro-Southern tribes in Oklahoma. Wichita was a railroad terminal and a destination for cattle drives from Texas. The town would fill with drunken, armed cowboys celebrating the end of their long journey when the cattle drives arrived, and lawmen were kept busy. The legendary Wyatt Earp lived in Wichita from 1874-1876, served as sheriff, and along with his wife also ran a brothel before going to Dodge City, KS and later Deadwood, SD. In the 1920s and 1930s, businessmen and aeronautical engineers established aircraft manufacturing companies in Wichita. Wichita is the birthplace of Pizza Hut and White Castle fast-food chains. Has Sedgwick County Zoo, the 7th largest zoo in America with 3,000 animals, 400 species, and 247 acres. Home of Intrust Bank, a private $5 billion bank. Wichita has a decent-sized commercial airport (small hub). 648k MSA in 2021 (+0.05% from 2020-2021) 2010 urban area population 473k. City proper 398k, 161.99 sq mi. MSA grew 3.94% from 2010-2020 from 623k to 648k.
Freddy's Frozen Custard and Steakburgers, also started in Wichita. And I believe as of now, the original family that started Freddy's still owns that chain. The guy who started Freddy's sadly passed away, sometime in the last few years.
And is a little different(Freddy's, where they still are based out of Wichita) than White Castle and Pizza Hut, where the original owners sold off those chains years ago, and both today no longer are headquartered in Wichita. I think Pizza Hut still has a few Wichita locations, but White Castle no longer does. Their closest location as of now, is Columbia, Missouri.
This will be an interesting thread to follow, myself. I'd have to think, how I'd rank each of these cities.
I'd rank them as follows, though I'm certainly not an expert on any of them.
Lansing
Toledo
Wichita
Ft. Wayne
Lansing seems to have the ingredients for easiest future being seat of state gov't for such a populous state along with having such a large university. Though I would think that also will depend on how well the state of Michigan can get out of its own way. Considering other state capitals that have those same ingredients are typically further ahead of Lansing in population and economic growth.
Toledo I think will have the hardest path going forward. It's definitely an industrial legacy city and it's been struggling to adjust to the modern economy over the last 40 years. Toledo has some surprisingly good cultural institutions for a city of its size, but overall I think it will continue to fall down the rankings of relevancy as other cities continue to grow past it.
Fort Wayne reminds me of a smaller Grand Rapids in that it's not home to a major university and it's somewhat off the beaten path and yet still manages to out perform it's peers in economic and population growth metrics. It makes me think they are doing something right to keep the area moving forward toward modern viability. I think it'll continue to lag in influence being in Indy's shadow.
I know the least about Wichita. My impression is that it's similar to Toledo in that it seems to have apexed and is now being passed by other cities in population/economics. It certainly isn't declining like Toledo. Technically the Kansas suburbs of Kansas City are the largest and wealthiest population cluster in the state I don't know how/if that has an affect on Wichita though.
As a side note thank you for such a well detailed and excellent OP. Your descriptions were so well researched and informative. Not a lot of folks would cover so much detail for comparison cities, let alone cities in this population group. It was really cool to read
Last edited by Landolakes90; 05-21-2022 at 07:03 AM..
Voted for Lansing, Wichita, Toledo, Fort Wayne. As someone who lives near three of those cities, I would say this:
Lansing: Only capital city on the list and the capital of a large-ish state, so it punches above its weight.
Wichita: The one furthest from me. Seems like the only major city in central Kansas.
Toledo: Overshadowed by Detroit and in decline. Still a pretty big city though and dominates NW Ohio.
Fort Wayne: I live only three hours away and don't know much about it.
Speaking of Fort Wayne, I remember some years back watching an I-469 video. And it surprised me for a beltway, how little development had been built near it. And a more recent street view look I did on my own after watching that video in the past(I think from Freeway Andrew? it's too bad he no longer produces new freeway videos on YouTube, but to my knowledge his videos still remain up on YT), shows there still isn't a lot of development near it.
Although in the past I street viewed New Haven, and it didn't look bad for a town just outside of Fort Wayne. That said, Fort Wayne did have a few older blocks and neighborhoods that look nice, but it becomes rural quickly outside of the city of Fort Wayne.
It's main mall(Glenbrook Square) is better occupied than one might think, so it's hard to rank for myself which city is most influential to least.
As a native Kansas Citian, I kinda feel for Wichita. The OP made a strong case for it being an influential city (and the Koch brothers are nothing if not extremely influential in conservative politics at the national level), but as far as Kansas politics are concerned, the state's largest city (and the largest metro contained entirely within it) lives in the shadow of not only the Kansas side of the Kansas City metropolitan area, the largest urban area in the state, but also what I call the Northeast Kansas conurbation, consisting of the easternmost 60 miles of the Kansas Turnpike, connecting Kansas City, Lawrence (home to the University of Kansas, the state's premier academic university) and Topeka, the state capital. (To reinforce this, the Lawrence MSA recently became part of the Kansas City-Overland Park-Kansas City CSA.)
Thus I voted Lansing, Toledo, Wichita, Fort Wayne.
Coda reinforcing the above: In his 1948 book Inside U.S.A., author John Guinther referred to Kansas City, Mo., as "the capital of a state it isn't even in." At the time, The Kansas City Star published a weekly edition that was the only newspaper that circulated statewide in Kansas, and in the 1950s, Star editor Roy Roberts made the cover of Time for his role as a kingmaker in Kansas Republican politics.
As a native Kansas Citian, I kinda feel for Wichita. The OP made a strong case for it being an influential city (and the Koch brothers are nothing if not extremely influential in conservative politics at the national level), but as far as Kansas politics are concerned, the state's largest city (and the largest metro contained entirely within it) lives in the shadow of not only the Kansas side of the Kansas City metropolitan area, the largest urban area in the state, but also what I call the Northeast Kansas conurbation, consisting of the easternmost 60 miles of the Kansas Turnpike, connecting Kansas City, Lawrence (home to the University of Kansas, the state's premier academic university) and Topeka, the state capital. (To reinforce this, the Lawrence MSA recently became part of the Kansas City-Overland Park-Kansas City CSA.)
Thus I voted Lansing, Toledo, Wichita, Fort Wayne.
Coda reinforcing the above: In his 1948 book Inside U.S.A., author John Guinther referred to Kansas City, Mo., as "the capital of a state it isn't even in." At the time, The Kansas City Star published a weekly edition that was the only newspaper that circulated statewide in Kansas, and in the 1950s, Star editor Roy Roberts made the cover of Time for his role as a kingmaker in Kansas Republican politics.
I kinda wonder now myself, is Hutchinson(not too far northwest of Wichita) considered part of the Wichita metro statistical area? It isn't too far to the northwest, and wouldn't be surprised if Hutchinson residents have sometimes commuted to Wichita for jobs.
I still debate in my head, how I'd rank each of these 4 cities and metros. Yes Wichita might sometimes get overlooked since it isn't in northeast Kansas, but I think that city has done well despite this. This city has done efforts to try to revitalize it's downtown, such as attract a Drury Inn to take over a former older hotel building in downtown. And there's an area of bars and restaurants on the east side of downtown Wichita, that often is popular with visitors.
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