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I started the thread for the full service grocery stores in US City downtowns, and it led me to thinking that the presence or lack of a full service grocery store downtown, is largely tied to downtown perm resident population numbers for each city.
So I did a little searching online, and found a bit of information, but it is a few years old, and the details are spread out thinly.
This lays out some city residential downtown population numbers, and many are very surprising. These numbers are based on the status, as of 2017:
*Memphis and Detroit have very strong downtown residential populations, bucking the perception that the cities are desolate, crime ridden and scary downtown. Quite the opposite.
Both have full service grocery stores and are growing/gentrifying well, blending tourism and residential downtown very well.
*Dallas, Phoenix, Houston, Jacksonville, Salt Lake City, Tampa and Louisville have shockingly very LOW residents downtown. Based on the 2017 numbers, it's no wonder these downtowns are lacking basic amenities--hardly anyone lives there permanently. Hopefully the numbers have changed dramatically for some of them.
*Philadelphia, Chicago, Miami, Seattle, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Denver, all have very strong residential populations, leading to bustling and vibrant downtowns.
*Orlando was a surprise for me! Wow, amazing residential numbers downtown.
*Austin and Nashville's numbers have skyrocketed since 2017, and will double or triple by the 2030s, easily
It's a great topic, but I'd suggest radius population or something more standardized.
As the source says, his data is apples to oranges. Some are tiny areas and some are gigantic. He doesn't provide maps or square mileage, so it's hard to even guess what the numbers represent.
I started the thread for the full service grocery stores in US City downtowns, and it led me to thinking that the presence or lack of a full service grocery store downtown, is largely tied to downtown perm resident population numbers for each city.
So I did a little searching online, and found a bit of information, but it is a few years old, and the details are spread out thinly.
This lays out some city residential downtown population numbers, and many are very surprising. These numbers are based on the status, as of 2017:
*Memphis and Detroit have very strong downtown residential populations, bucking the perception that the cities are desolate, crime ridden and scary downtown. Quite the opposite.
Both have full service grocery stores and are growing/gentrifying well, blending tourism and residential downtown very well.
*Dallas, Phoenix, Houston, Jacksonville, Salt Lake City, Tampa and Louisville have shockingly very LOW residents downtown. Based on the 2017 numbers, it's no wonder these downtowns are lacking basic amenities--hardly anyone lives there permanently. Hopefully the numbers have changed dramatically for some of them.
*Philadelphia, Chicago, Miami, Seattle, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Denver, all have very strong residential populations, leading to bustling and vibrant downtowns.
*Orlando was a surprise for me! Wow, amazing residential numbers downtown.
*Austin and Nashville's numbers have skyrocketed since 2017, and will double or triple by the 2030s, easily
Dallas has about 15,000 people in Downtown. Downtown Dallas is only 1.4 sq mi. It’s expected to double in population in the next 5 years with all the projects planned or U/C.
It's a great topic, but I'd suggest radius population or something more standardized.
As the source says, his data is apples to oranges. Some are tiny areas and some are gigantic. He doesn't provide maps or square mileage, so it's hard to even guess what the numbers represent.
agreed. for my city (Birmingham), just using the 2020 Census Demographic Data Map Viewer to select certain census tracts, i get at least 7,000 residents (and possibly 10,000 depending how generous you want to be with the definition of "downtown".
(using the same method, Memphis is more in the 10-12,000 range as opposed to 24,000).
Wouldn't that growth include Uptown, which would expand the square mileage quite a bit?
Nope, Uptown is 591.8 acres and is a different submarket. It’s very dense given its small size. It has a slightly higher population than Downtown (Uptown pop. Q3 2019 17,064) . It doesn’t include Victory Park (where the American Airlines Center is) and the Harwood District. They’re different areas even though they’re right next to Uptown. Can’t even tell the difference honestly. Only the signs are pretty much the only way of knowing.
Here’s the quote from The Dallas Business Journal posted in May 2022 (free article)
America's new mainstreets: Downtown Dallas
Quote:
Today we have almost 15,000 residents in Downtown. It will be twice that in five years with everything that’s happening. The growth is phenomenal, and I don’t see anything getting in the way of it right now.
JONAS: The pedestrian experience is totally different. Even in these new urban neighborhoods, it’s not close to the same thing. Even Uptown is not a good example of a real pedestrian-oriented urban neighborhood. Great buildings, phenomenal real estate, but not a pedestrian environment that rivals great pedestrian environments. Downtown is the only one that really can be that.
EDIT: BTW downtown is the fastest growing part of Dallas.
Victory Park is 75 acres
Harwood District is 19 city blocks
agreed. for my city (Birmingham), just using the 2020 Census Demographic Data Map Viewer to select certain census tracts, i get at least 7,000 residents (and possibly 10,000 depending how generous you want to be with the definition of "downtown".
(using the same method, Memphis is more in the 10-12,000 range as opposed to 24,000).
This is a fantastic tool. Thanks for sharing! Wish they had data for income, too.
agreed. for my city (Birmingham), just using the 2020 Census Demographic Data Map Viewer to select certain census tracts, i get at least 7,000 residents (and possibly 10,000 depending how generous you want to be with the definition of "downtown".
(using the same method, Memphis is more in the 10-12,000 range as opposed to 24,000).
You beat me to it! I was going to recommend this as well. Seems a bit more official, some of these numbers I am not certain of in the OP. The census tool isn’t a perfect metric since census tracts don’t follow neighborhood boundaries exactly, but it should still give a decent idea. People can post populations and total area to compare at least.
Using that tool (which btw, I love) has Downtown Houston at 17,138 and Downtown Dallas is harder but comes in at 15,706. I don't know how much of DTH is the jail though but DTH definitely has more than 3000 and is closer to 10k. Now both does definitely need to improve.
Last edited by Spade; 07-06-2022 at 12:53 PM..
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